h a l f b a k e r yBirth of a Notion.
add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random
news, help, about, links, report a problem
browse anonymously,
or get an account
and write.
register,
|
|
|
1. Cellulosic waste is gathered in a large tank. This could be agricultural waste, paper etc.
2. Water is added: preferably untreated wastewater for the nitrogen content / cheapness.
3. Fungi of appropriate type are added.
4. Mix is allowed to sit for a bit. Fungi grow, exude cellulases.
5.
Hard radiation is shined thru tank. Everything dies (in the tank). Cellulases continue to work but now nothing eats the glucose liberated.
6. Yeast are added to tank. Glucose ferments.
7. Ethanol is distilled off the top of the tank.
8. Rinse; repeat.
Mold reduction using radiation
http://www.ncbi.nlm...gov/pubmed/22856582
[bungston, Mar 02 2016]
Please log in.
If you're not logged in,
you can see what this page
looks like, but you will
not be able to add anything.
Destination URL.
E.g., https://www.coffee.com/
Description (displayed with the short name and URL.)
|
| |
I think your problems would start at point 5. When
the fungi die, they will eventually lyse and spew out
proteases and other crap that will destroy the
cellulases. But I might be wrong. So, [+] for the use
of hard radiation. |
|
| |
If fungal cells could keep proteases inside them they would keep the cellulases inside too. They spew all that stuff out and then hope for the best. Which is why they worry so much about opportunistic bacteria making off with the fruits of their labors. |
|
| |
// Cellulases continue to work // |
|
| |
Ionizing radiation kills cells by de-naturing proteins (amongst other effects) so enough radiation to reliably kill all the fungus culture is going to give the enzymes a fair battering too. Just one photon smacking into an enzyme is going to comromise its structure. |
|
| |
Radiation-sterilized food can still contain dangerous levels of organic toxins - seafood is a prime example. The product can pass bacteriological testing but still cause severe illness. But if enough radiation is used, the toxin can be significantly degraded too. |
|
| |
And after enough nutritionally-suspicious irradiated food is consumed, in addition to the residual organic toxins still in the food [thank you, 8th], bingo!, no more consumers requiring murderously-derived ethanol for cars, to drive to purchase more irradiated dead food! |
|
| |
I like how this reapportions the bioenergy; Revenge of the Sacrificed Fungi! |
|
| |
Is it time to mention Soylent Green yet ? |
|
| |
Make the irradiated consumers into the irradiated food--brilliant! I was thinking of your shrimp example, but hey, why not think big?! |
|
| |
//Ionizing radiation kills cells by de-naturing
proteins (amongst other effects) so enough
radiation to reliably kill all the fungus culture is
going to give the enzymes a fair battering too.// |
|
| |
Well, not really. Yes, there will be some protein
damage, but you can kill things with radiation
doses that don't damage proteins enough to
matter. What kills the cell is the amount of DNA
damage, which overwhelms the repair mechanisms
and isn't fixed before the cell wants to replicate
again. |
|
| |
Also, considering that we humans are perfectly
happy to eat food which has been incubated for
prolonged periods at temperatures exceeding
100°C (causing utterly stupefying levels of
chemical alteration), it's probably just childish to
worry about the effect of irradiation. |
|
| |
Using radiation to kill the yeast is a bad idea,
because it will be vastly expensive (even more so
if you want to do it safely and legally). A much
simpler solution is to kill the fungi with heat; I
would guess that 50°C would do it, and probably
wouldn't denature the cellulases. If fungi-killing
temperatures _do_ denature the cellulases, it
would be fairly easy to engineer the fungi to
produce more thermostable cellulases that would
remain active after heat-killing the fungi. |
|
| |
But then again, again, it's probably simpler and
cheaper just to add cellulases to the mix. More
effective than fungi, simpler and faster. Cellulases
are already produced on a vast scale for things like
ageing denim. |
|
| |
// if you want to do it safely and legally // |
|
| |
A diet rich in naturally-fermented foods (sauerkraut, kefir, kimchi, yogurt, cheese, small beer...), local fresh veg, and grass-fed or free-range (wild) meat is both healthier and more conducive to being a joyful human.
Irradiated food loses taste, texture, and visual appeal.
Just sayin'. |
|
| |
I have had kefir. When does the joy happen? |
|
| |
The joy normally within 24-48 hours of consumption, [MB].
Of course the, shall we say, more restricted or inhibited human may feel the joy only after 3 or 4 days. |
|
| |
Additional measures may be required. Consider a side of psyllium, speaking of cellulose. |
|
| |
On the morrow. In the loo. |
|
| |
//Consider a side of psyllium// I'm happy to
consider it, as long as that's all it takes. |
|
| |
//Consider a side of psyllium// |
|
| |
"a side of psyllium", not "psilocybin" then ? Psilocybin would be much more ... interesting. |
|
| |
/ Using radiation to kill the yeast is a bad idea, because it will be vastly expensive / |
|
| |
Radiation is chosen to avoid denaturing the cellulase. And also, we will not be killing yeast until the distillation step. We will be killing filamentous fungi present in the first step as these are the ones that can make cellulases. It is analogous to making malt: you let the barley sprout, make amylase, then kill the sprout so it will not eat the product of its amylase. |
|
| |
But is it more expensive to kill with radiation than with heat? Let us consider energy budgets only. Water soaks up a lot of heat. I thought about recapturing some of the energy used later in distilling off the ethanol by routing the cooling circuit thru a vat at an earlier stage that was ready to heat up. Using gamma radiation to kill sidesteps energy lost to heating water. |
|
| |
Let me see about some math and web-scavenged info. As approach the blackboard I worry about orders of magnitude. |
|
| |
1 gray (radiation energy) = 1 joule / kg.
I found (linked) 4 kilogray of gamma radiation = 99% kill for aspergillus niger, here representing generic fungi.
So that = 4000 joules for 99% kill of a kg of fungus. That should be 4 kilojoules. |
|
| |
I found a value of 2261 kilojoules to bring 1 liter (1kg) of water from 20 to 100C. Even 37% of that (20C to 50C) is a lot more than 4 kJ. |
|
| |
Considering costs purely as energy cost, it looks lots cheaper to kill with radiation than heat. Unless I have gotten the orders of magnitude wrong. |
|
| |
I am considering a postapocalyptic world, as I am wont. The gasoline has gotten stale. When our denim is looking youthful and we call Sigma to order cellulase, alien zombies chuckle into the phone. So in the BUNGCO compound we will be brewing our own fuel to power the gyrocopter and look for survivors (the nightly parties are getting boring). |
|
| |
// lots cheaper to kill with radiation than heat. // |
|
| |
Airburst nukes mostly kill by heat flash and blast. |
|
| |
// Unless I have gotten the orders of magnitude wrong. // |
|
| |
//Airburst nukes mostly kill by heat flash and blast.
// |
|
| |
For ground-detonating weapons, it would be really,
really unlucky to be killed simply by having the thing
land on your head. |
|
| |