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Car-Ma
Real time rating of other drivers. | |
A digital counter that goes on the roof of your car, and comes with a remote control that has two buttons. The remote can be used to send a "nice driver (+1)" or "mean driver (-1)" signal to another person's counter.
If somebody lets you into the lane, give them a good Car-ma point. If somebody
cuts you off without signalling, give them a bad Car-ma point. Etcetera.
Anybody just driving along would be able to see the ratings of the drivers around them, reward behavior they think is positive, and "punish" behavior they think is negative. You'd be able to see bad drivers coming, and give them a wide berth.
You'd need to work in some limiting system to keep people from "stuffing the ballot box", but it's a simple system that enables people to give feedback to others in a non-violent and constructive fashion.
Automobile Paint Ball
http://www.halfbake...bile_20Paint_20Ball
Physical version [jutta, Mar 08 2000]
BBC News Story
http://news.bbc.co....d_861000/861240.stm
"...uses a combination of Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites and mobile phones. Installed in the car is system that talks to GPS satellites and works out when and where the car is being driven. Periodically, data from this transponder is sent back to [Insurance company] over a mobile phone link. It works out if the customer has been a safe driver by keeping within speed limits, staying off roads notorious for accidents and avoiding areas with heavy traffic.". - So, similar to Car-Ma, except that this is telling the insurance companies whether you're a safe driver.. [hippo, Mar 08 2000, last modified Oct 21 2004]
vaguely similar
http://www.halfbake...dicating_20Clothing
[mrthingy, Mar 08 2000]
There's an App for that
http://www.nerdist....m-made-easy-sort-of
app allows you to rate people's driving [paix120, Dec 16 2010]
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Annotation:
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Peer reviewed Car-Ma: It's actionable. Score too many adjuticated bad Car-Ma points, and you pay a fine, or have your license suspended, or somebody can key your car and not get punished, etc. |
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``You'd be able to see bad
drivers coming, and give them a
wide berth''... hmm, this sounds
like positive reinforcement for
bad Car-ma. I'd love to drive
around with -100 and watch
everyone flee in terror. |
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Hey, I'm from New Jersey originally, and these vigilante traffic cops you see in other states just don't survive very long.
When you see the guy in the big white SUV cruising through 65 mph traffic at 85 mph, either you get out of the way, or you get flattened.
Sure, it only encourages them, but I'd rather be wrong than dead. |
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The best way to prevent ballot stuffing etc would be to use a slashdot-like moderation system and make peoples votes count according to their CarMa - e.g. the votes of a person with bad CarMa might only count 1/2 has much as votes from a person with good CarMa |
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Or instead of simple numeric ranking
you could have collaborative filtering.
``Drivers like you gave this driver
high marks...'' |
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That way speed demons and little old ladies
(and speeding little old ladies) could each
have their own cluster that would warn them
about the other. |
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With everybody busy reading each other's digital readouts, traffic accidents will triple! Then everyone's Car-ma will plummet, and you'll have a national disaster on your hands. |
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Maybe people with +100 car ma could be deputized... If I have a high car ma, I could pull over someone who has bad car ma. Of course, I could hack the unit, and then I would become deputized, and noone would ever cut me off.
Even better though, if your car drives bad, it blows up and you die. People would drive nicely out of fear for their lives.... |
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Would have to tie it to personal ID somehow. Otherwise you could arbitrage Car-ma points: imagine a service that, for a fee, takes your car and drives it around all day exceedingly politely, thus working off your bad Car-ma. Or you could sell your good Car-ma to J. Random Tailgater for their next joy-ride. |
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And what's wrong with that?
It's economics in action!
Just like pollution credits... |
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I like the idea of a negative Car-Ma affecting your car somehow. Like, if your Car-Ma drops below 0, you lose the ability to drive above 50mph. On the other end, there could be perks for having very high Car-Ma, like having the closest parking spots at the mall be reserved for high scorers. In fact, maybe certain things could automatically trigger a Car-Ma decrease...like, if you park in a handicapped spot without a placard, you're automatically docked a hundred points. |
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Or your car breaks a kneecap, so you actually belong there... |
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Wait, I like this. You can park in the handicapped spot, as long as you're willing to actually _be_ handicapped for the length of time that you're there. But you don't get to choose your handicap. So, for instance, Car-Ma might blind you, or break your legs, or paralyze you. I have no idea how this would be accomplished. I just think it's a cool notion. I like the idea that people can do whatever they want, as long as they're willing to accept the consequences. In this case, the consequences would be immediate, albeit temporary. Hey..."Instant Car-Ma." Get it? Hyuk, hyuk. |
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So if you park too long in a truck
loading zone, you have to deliver
for somebody? If you don't pay
your meter, you get to play meter
maid for just as long? If you
flash too many people with your
brights you get those eyedrops
that dialate your pupils (so
even regular headlights hurt)? |
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No, actually, I meant if you park in a handicapped zone, you become handicapped and thus able to permanently park there. It breaks your knee so you have to walk with a cane for the rest of your life, and prints out a nice placard for you. |
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(I have a low opinion of people who do things like park in handicapped spaces or diagonally through three spaces so they can protect their pretty cars, can you tell?) |
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Permanent disability? Wow, that's pretty severe! I don't think I'd be that extreme, since I'd want to allow for the occasional honest mistake. I once parked in a disabled spot by accident (because the paint designating the spot as disabled-only was faded almost beyond recognition), and it would have sucked to be blinded forever because of one innocent flub. About people who park across three spaces, though...no excuse for this. Death! |
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Ok, so it warns you first. I have no problem with that...Mistakes do happen, and it would be proof that you deliberately ignored the markings and warning... |
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Apparently someone hasn't seen the comedian (George Carlin?) who suggested every driver get a dart gun with six darts a year. When someone does something stupid, you could fire a dart at their car. When you see someone with darts on their car, you'd know you should keep away. Anyone with six darts on their car could get pulled over and be ticketed for being an idiot. (Well, "idiot" was not the word Carlin used) |
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No need to display the Car-ma rating on the top of the car. Keep it internalized, used to help determine fault in accidents (if you have a bad Car-ma) and to show cops for leneince on a ticket (if you have good Car-ma). |
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In fact, no need to even make it available to the driver. (If you pull into a lane and you can see your Car-ma rating drop (and you think it is undeserved) you will be likely to vote down the person behind you just for spite) |
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It should be like the "black box" recorder on airplanes. You would need a special tool (carried by all police) to get a reading out of it. |
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This will also keep voting "honest". you will not have any preconceived notions about drivers when you vote on them. I think angry self rightous drivers will be extra critical to any low rated Car-ma drivers they see coming. |
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Votes are also limited (like George Carlins Darts...although I thought it was Galliger who did that bit) so people will be less likely to vote at random, or vote up your freinds. |
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I guess for complete evaluation, the identity of who voted on someone should be stored for future reference (at the trial or whatever). |
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Just pondering the notion of extending this concept to other areas. Perhaps some sort of portable device could be used by commuters so people who barge past others or don't give their seat to heavily pregnant ladies get bad credits, while people who are curteous recieve good credits. Then, when the person next buys a ticket, they get a discount if they have enough good credits or are fined if they have too many bad credits. This would surely promote a better atmosphere for all who have to travel by public transport? Any comments? |
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Great idea. Now if only you could apply your good Car-Ma to your insurance rates in order to get a reduction... |
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a) Shouldn't ballot-stuffing be encouraged?
Makes it much more likely that you'll get into
chases and all that fun stuff. Our grandchildren
won't believe how boring commuting in traffic
used to be.
b) Safety issue. Sounds to me like we need
Heads-Up-Displays projected on the inside of our
windscreens, and a laser gun turret on the roof -
tracking where your eyes are pointing, like in
Apache gunships. That way, no unsafe pointing,
etc, and seeing the turret come round to you
would encourage entertaining evasive
manouvers.
c) Average and daily score should be available in
the readout - you'd want to make allowances if
someone's wildly off their usual driving form. |
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you'd have to have an anti-retaliatory (I love retaliatory, ever since I played Worms) device to stop counter-voting. ie. Someone cuts you up, you send them a bad Car-Ma, they send one back out of beligerance, you send another etc.... A time delay ? Half a day would put off all but the most detarmined pursuers. What about people that are close to 'knee-capping'/fine/auto speed restriction ? They would be very annoyed if you bad Car-Ma'd them and could possibly want to extract revenge... |
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Depends on the Pedant-level of the revengee |
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This is not only workable but necessary, albeit in a slightly different form - my version requires nothing but a database program. |
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I've almost been killed twice (more times, really, but two stand out) by crazy drivers. One time a guy slalomed up a highway causing all kinds of havoc, nearly jackknifing a fuel truck. I got his plate number and a description and called the police. They said if I went through a lot of rigmarole they could send him a vague letter advising him of the importance of safe driving habits. |
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In a friend's neighborhood, one kid always roared around in his Mustang, people muttering, "He's gonna kill somebody one of these days." Sure enough, one day he ran a stop sign and killed my friend's neighbor. |
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We' all encounter people who are just driving crazy dangerous. As long as there's no police car around at the particular moment, they can get away with most anything. |
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A common answer is to say we need to have more regular testing. Well, anyone who saw me take my driver's test when I moved would've seen the nicest, most courteous driver in the world. Downtown a half-hour later, I was out of the car trying to smash some guy's window in (which, incidentally, I wouldn't have been doing if there was some other way to emphatically make the point about how bad his driving was). |
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Testing is meaningless without follow-up. Road rage is understandable - if someone tries to kill you, or almost kills you by accident, it's normal to react. |
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A more workable (and needed) system would be that each person gets, say, three "Complaint Points" per month. Use them how you like, all at once or for three different cars. You don't need fancy gizmos - you just call in (or use the DMV website) to register the offending vehicle, time and place. |
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A couple friends raised the same objections as some halfbakers - What if somebody's crazy or racist or just doesn't like someone else? |
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Well, that could be controlled for (as well as we do with the current police-based system... or better). One person's complaint alone does nothing. There'd have to be, say, twelve points before anything happened. If one guy, month after month, dumps all his CPs on you, they'd be ignored. Complaints could be reviewed for factors such as make of car, racism or any other -ism. (And, of course, we know race has never been a factor in any police stops.) The problems could be worked out. |
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You get enough points, you go before a judge. You'd get a chance to explain yourself and likely you just get a warning. Keep getting the points, and appropriate action is taken - maybe then some of the accusers have to show up at court (I'd have had no problem showing up for slalom dude - heck, I'd still fly back just for that). |
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It seems like everyone sees the value of this, but frets that it's not workable. It is workable, we just need to set it in action. It would be a lot better than muttering, "Wow, that was really dangerous and stupid. I bet that guy kills somebody one of these days." |
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No deal. Certain people will tend to the other extreme. Having a rating that measures bad Car-ma would be the same as encouraging bad Car-ma. |
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I wasn't clear enough with "appropriate action". I meant that if you received enough CPs, you'd go to court, lose your license, pay fines, etc. It's not just like you'd high-five your buddies and brag about it with a t-shirt that said, "Negative 100, Dude!" |
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This is one of the better solutions to this driver rating idea. There should be something built into the system to allow only a single vote to be cast by each individual in each incident. This would give all individuals involved in or witness to an incident equal voting power. |
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Bad idea, no matter how well meaning |
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I'd happily live with the empirical data collection in hippo's link, But not with subjective slings and arrows from idiots on the road. |
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Assign points partially based on miles driven: Granny who drives to church on Sundays and racks up 100 miles a month doesn't encounter as many idiots as Joe Deliveryman who puts on 4000 miles a month. Truckers even more so. A lot of the people who whine when a shipment of nuclear waste (in containers, on a train, with guards) crosses their county, are the same people who drive recklessly around gasoline tankers. Anyway... |
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In order for this to work, it would need meta-moderation, just like Slashdot. Every equipped vehicle has several cameras and a video recorder which normally records a "loop" of video, say 1 minute long. Frames older than that get dropped and the storage overwritten, UNLESS you're involved in a Car-ma transaction. If you fire a point, or if you get hit with a point, your unit saves the video (1 minute prior, 1 minute after?) and tags it with the transaction ID. Optionally annotate the clip with a minute of cockpit audio, so you can provide details if needed. |
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After the fact, a panel of bored judges (fellow drivers, off-duty cops, folks waiting in the unemployment line) could review each incident from all sides. If you're abusing your transmitter, you lose it or have its power reduced. If you deserve the negative points you got smacked with, we limit your driving privileges. |
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Pedestrians and cyclists should also get transmitters, and possibly receivers. (Jaywalking should be legal IMHO, as long as nobody with a transmitter has to slow down to let you cross.) |
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In addition to limiting engine power output and vehicle top speed, I'd like to see a GPS-based "you're not allowed to drive in pedestrian-heavy areas", so your vehicle shuts off if you try to take it downtown or near a school during certain hours. |
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Perks for positive car-ma would be interesting. Insurance discounts are just the beginning. Reserved parking would be nice, or how about a dating service exclusively for good drivers? |
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This is limited anarchial justice in my opinion. People with bad Car-ma deserve retribution even if they gain it from thier rudeness in riding the tube in my opinion.
Love thy neighbor as thyself, or else face your deserved consequences, poor fool. Heaven and Hell could be here and now, Why not? |
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This was one of the first ideas I ever read on the bakery, and I still like it. You would definitely need a way to limit voting (as suggested in the last paragraph of the idea), such as a vote-per-day limit or something. Otherwise people would abuse the system for personal vendettas and the like. (WTAGIPBAN) |
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The limit should be just like the bakery! One vote per person per car. Yes you can try to influence it but the weight of opinion will still slide against dud ideas or drivers in this case. |
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A simple punishment could be that the fuel gauge drops a little after each minus point, not enough to notice. immediately. Even the rudest driver will stop for more gas. |
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If he finds at the gas station that the tank isn't really empty, he knows that more than one person was annoyed with him. The attempt to fill up gas would reset the fuel gauge to normal operation while the driver has a nice coffee or soda to cool down. |
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(I admit I didn't read all posts so I'm sorry if I repeat anything) |
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There is a reporting system already in place with some rental car companies that utilize communications between vehicle and office for use in issuing fines to the renter for exceding a certian speed. |
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On-Star systems could be adapted for such things. |
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A randomized time delay before the car-ma point shows up would reduce retaliatory tagging. Set it to between 2-4 minutes and the tagged driver would probably have no way of knowing who tagged them (or be in rage if they did). |
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Likewise a delay between allowed tags would limit inverse stupidity situations (where both drivers did the stupid thing) because surrounding drivers would also tag the actual idiot as well, but the idiot could only tag one. |
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I am quite sure my idea is a bit costly, but will surely work. My main aim is to avoid one major drawback of the currently suggested system : The display of car-ma or car "A" is owned/under control of driver "A". Which means, he can tamper the display. |
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In the system I propose, a bar code behind each car represents the car's number. A camera system in _your_ car determines the number of the car in front/back, and immedietely downloads the car-ma info by relaying the number to a nearby cellphone tower, in turn querying the central server. This is displayed, read out any way you like. Voting can be done in the same way too. |
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This has another advantage. A traffic policeman with a radar gun can adjust the car-ma of someone who he just clocked to be too high, or noted that he is not driving properly. |
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A person with relatively low karma cannot vote on others. |
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Yet another advantage: You can program the car numbers of people you know and get notified if they are around. |
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2 Major disadvantages: each number is sent to the main server through cellphone system - which means it works only in places of cellphone signal coverage. It also means that the central server somewhat knows the position of each of the cars - provacy concerns. |
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