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sp. "Lamborghini", "metre" |
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yeah and halfbakery needs a spell checker... |
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I left metre as meter because most people don't read them, own one or have enough money for a cab (sorry taxi)... :) |
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This is dumb. Lets all get a rapid-prototyper! And lets have proprietary CAD files floating around online! |
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And the HB has a very efficient spell checker. All of us. |
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Sigh... the idea is that "automotive design" will be subject to widespread sampling aka the music industry --- that is given the ability to produce production ready components at home (c.f. a cd writer and mixing software/hardware with respect to the music industry)... |
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And furthermore --- the technology is currently confined to prototyping because of the build size, and the model construction. Here (that is with respect to the idea as proposed), we are discussing actual production of finished pieces or did you miss spell dumb? Perhaps you could examine the economic/legal/social implications of the technology --- but then that is beyond you. |
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Let alone the peer review of engineering ability that is currently being lauded by the ignorant... |
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Wow, you really care about this, why? |
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Why not post a more elobrate idea, without characters and some substance... |
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You'll notice that I did not bone this. I only bone or bun ideas... |
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Thank you, your amazement is expected. Jim is a simple man and unfortunately insubstantial after his demise... |
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In anycase, I try not to screw things up by adding too much unsubstantiated detail --- so I could only speculate that such a 3D printer (as Jims) would lay down reinforcement into the already available resin or plastic model... |
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//And the HB has a very efficient spell checker//
sp. "elaborate" |
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HA HA HA HahHAHA ha aaaaa |
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[coprocephalous] Thanks for the spell check |
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looks like someone boned it |
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Heh --- Mr Evil Penguin, Your observation is correct and yet it lacks substance. That is it is neither additive or substrative so does not belong in a discussion about rapid prototyping (or production for that matter). And you appear to be in need of a halfbakery spell checker... :)) |
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(-) Matter printers or duplicators are fairly well established in science fiction. I don't think going from there to downloads is worth pointing out. I mean, how *else* are you going to get the designs? There are going to be sites that host designs, and either build them for you or let you download them and build them yourself, just like you have now for e.g. laser cutting. |
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There are lots of interesting technical problems with this, but you don't address them. |
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Jutta --- I hate to point it out but this is not a matter replicator... so what part of the science fiction novel did you not understand? I know it is the bit about there not being any design at all. That is to put it plainly the duplicator of science fiction requires a part to copy... |
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Interesting technical problems, really? No there are existing prototype machines capable of working in steel --- the only technical issues relate to cost and these are uninteresting. |
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What is interesting is the changes to "automotive design" that could be triggered by this technology. Hence this post is in "Car Design" rather than "Neat Printers"... |
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// What is interesting is the changes to "automotive design" that could be triggered by this technology.
If you find those interesting, how about you talk about them in your post? |
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Duplication and printing are two related technologies; I'm not claiming they're the same, and don't appreciate the snarky response. |
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Jutta, Your example of laser cutting however apt simply lacks the concept of producting a finished product. |
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And I did talk about them --- they are simply that automotive design (with respect to this technology) will allow the "needs of the many to out weigh the needs of the one" (or some such bollocks)... |
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Find a way to take some of the cost out of automobile prototyping and the doorpathbeater will pay a visit to your domicile. Mostly automotive companies are trying to skip the step altogether. |
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Did you read the "Automotive Y Prize" post? This post poses the antithesis view point with respect to production technology... |
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That is looking at the technology that is (or soon will be) available to the mom and pop outfit it appears large corporations and backyard outfits can/will use the same pre-production techniques. |
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And that large runs of low cost products could be surplanted by freely downloadable designs, albeit with slightly increased production costs. |
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I can just see the layering head printing out the carbon fiber tubing, then the alloys of the engine, half formed ball bearings , thousands of coatings and paints, plating, annealing, polishing, etc. ad infinitum. |
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Reprap et al have baked this one, which makes it a good thing. |
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However, the massive cost of a Lamborghini isn't £1000 of raw materials and £99,000 profit. The reason that rapid prototypers haven't yet ousted old-style companies is because (at the moment at least) there are more appropriate and cost-effective ways to produce things than to print them. Castings, for instance, are a lot cheaper than hot isostatically pressed, laser sintered powder parts even for relatively small production runs (you pay for a wooden pattern, a bucket of sand and the energy to melt some metal, versus a high-cost, high-spec powder and a three-axis CNC holding a laser, followed by a carefully controlled furnace operating inside a pressure vessel). By way of illustration, if you got them rapid prototyped commercially, you're not going to get a set of suspension uprights for less than ten thousand a set (Rayford?), versus maybe £400+machining for cast parts. |
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In summary, a rapid prototyper takes the manufacturer's profit out of the equation - but with today's equipment, at least, it adds in more cost than it removes. |
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This has nothing to make it an idea or an invention. Yeah, maybe someday printing autos will be possible, but this post does nothing to hasten the day, nor to provide insight into how it might happen. |
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The "explanation" that this is a prediction that auto parts will someday be replicated is just pitiful, and about fifty years behind the times. Dozens of sources for purchasing copied auto parts already exist, and dimensions for making one's own are available and used by machine shops and shade-tree mechanics, according to skills and tools. The fact that parts copying will increase with capabilities is damned obvious and inevitable. |
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Here's a thought, by way of illustration and further criticism. If rapid printing of transport vehicles ever becomes possible, the design of the vehicles will change radically. For instance, engines will no longer have removable parts, fasteners or even regular shapes. Pistons will not be cylindrical, as they will not be machined. Hell, the car wouldn't even have any access to the engine. And, quite likely, standard makes such as Lamborghini will fade away. |
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This post is just a repeat of many a science-fiction story, and has much less substance. Delete it, don't defend it. And don't offend [jutta]. [-] |
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I did not read the Y prize post. I do work in automotive. |
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I'm no expert on rapid prototype materials but it seems to me that the materials available would not be sufficient to build a running prototype. |
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Vehicle prototypes are built for a number of reasons: to explore the packaging and alignment of parts, to tweak the production tools, to work out the bugs of the manufacturing process, to test the order of assembly, to test function and behavior under misfunction, to gain reliability data, etc. I'm afraid a car built from rapid prototyping would not be useful for most of the above, as the prototype process is too foreign from the method of manufacture. |
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It might be interesting to publicize the design concepts though, which are partly marketing and partly engineering exploration. |
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//Mr Evil Penguin// That's my father |
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I fail to see the new what is the new idea?
Perhaps the author could explain more, or
am I a bit dim? |
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Oh, [Xenzag], he meant he would like to download a rotary engine in a new and beautiful package from me. |
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No, [rotary], it clearly says "pretty damned pleased". |
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Oh, [baconbrain], jim would surely be pretty blessed and pleased... (Look! no wings, mom!) |
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Eye, four won, ballif tat tee bay carry has too mach spell chequer rink going on, |
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Remember this is the Car:Design section and that mumbling about 3d printer technology is a side issue. |
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Mr Bacon Brain indicates he has the gist of it saying, "And, quite likely, standard makes such as Lamborghini will fade away.". The mistake Mr Bacon Brain makes is that he believes printing at home will replace mass production --- this is clearly never going to happen. |
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The clue is in the title... |
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james_what,
//
It's a proper name. I can spell it how I please, Mr Wot. |
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Yes, it's in the Car:Design section, so what's the car design idea? |
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Your 'idea' seems to be "download plans for a car and build it". |
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You can do this already. I'm sure you'll find the drawings for a Locost somewhere. There are difficulties in this, but you haven't addressed any of them. |
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//The mistake Mr Bacon Brain makes is that he believes printing at home will replace mass production --- this is clearly never going to happen.// |
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The mistake I make is annotating this mess. What I believe is that printing automobiles is so far off in the speculative future that we have an equally good chance of ending up hand-sewing Zorbs for our lizard overlords. Clearly, [madness] has happened. |
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Baconbrain --- the current technology is capable of producing an RC (Radio Controlled) model, although not (yet) cheap enough to be used for that purpose (at home)... |
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Srimech --- cool a lotus 7 replica, and I have the garage and welding kit... This looks more like a recipe than a design. And where is the progress (in the design)? |
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It doesn't really compare to firing up autodesk, downloading/designing a new bit of kit, building it, testing it and then uploading the design. |
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What is a waste of time is waiting for a critic of the proposed effect on automotive design, i.e. the cars people drive will remain the same with or without the ability for anyone to produce finished parts at home... |
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[madness] Yes, machines exist that can 3D-print a little resin body shell that can snap onto an RC car's frame. I know that, I used to program one. |
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So? That doesn't make it any more likely that it will ever be possible to print entire cars, but it does show that the possibility is an obvious progression of present technology. Which just emphasizes that this post has no idea or invention. It describes an event that will inevitably occur in progress along an obvious path already well-worn in experience and expectation. |
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"Jim bought a tool. Jim found some design information. Jim's pretty damned pleased with himself . . .." |
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//emphasizes that this post has no idea or invention// Thank you |
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Umm this idea/invention is public domain automotive design... |
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1 it is not currently --- what is current is the ability to copy existing parts...
2 the feasibility has been accepted (by you since you keep telling me that 3D printers already exist --- I know) |
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The contention is the impact of public domain automotive design.... I am prepared to accept that there will be no impact since you say there is nothing new about building something at home. |
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I contend that public domain design will have the same impact that say linux has had on software design. Specifically both major commercial operating systems are based on a bit of code written by a kid... |
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Given the amount of automobile components that can't be printed out on an inkjet or a laser-cutter, I don't think it's very feasible. |
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If you look in the time-portal back to the 60's-70's you *will* however notice a large number of DIY kits to convert (mostly) VW Beetles into various different physical shapes. It's somewhat more difficult these days since we've moved from frame-based to unibody construction. |
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Note that you can send a welding or sheet metal shop a set of blueprints and they'll do something up for you... that's pretty baked, though rare that somebody actually does it. |
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So now it's about open-source vehicle design? Could you not have said so in the damn post, or anywhere in your fricking annoconvulsions? |
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Public domain automotive design is another obvious possibility, based on the past, present and expected future of cars and info-sharing. But this version is just stupid--Lamborghini posting their CAD files before their cars can sell? |
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//major commercial operating systems are based on a bit of code written by a kid...// And all airplanes are based on work done by a couple of bicycle mechanics. |
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"Jim and his friends modified cars. Car designers sometimes looked at the kind of work done by Jim and his friends. Jim's pretty damned pleased with himself . . .." |
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With the correct input data you could build yourself a trainwreck.
Oh, hang on... |
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Lamborghini would not post there own designs on a web site stupid... :) |
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Although I have heard that main stream proponents of 3D print technology believe that the public will pay for designs that they print at home... I think that this is naive. |
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The expertise required to overcome the difficulties posed by production are a barrier to entry for the individual working in automotive design. With this barrier removed the remaining barriers are mearly cognitive. |
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So kiddies should be able to do it and ground ups will have to watch and be amazed... |
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//Lamborghini would not post there own designs on a web site stupid... :) // |
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Now isn't calling them stupid kinda like the pot calling the kettle black? |
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Definitely, Jutta's linked blog has a new article about open source design... |
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/He then googled for the latest lamborghini cad files and pressed print./ madness, Apr 23 2008 |
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/Lamborghini would not post there own designs on a web site stupid.../ madness, Apr 25 2008 |
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Quite. The pot is calling the chrome-plated stainless steel pan black. |
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Open source design isn't new. Rapid prototypers aren't new; see my link to the open-source rapid prototyper for a demonstration of both facts simultaneously. The prediction that rapid prototypers might one day be better, cheaper and more capable isn't new either. |
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What are you actually claiming here? |
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Lamborghini-Mazda merger = composite rotary RX2010 |
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Totally irresistible to naysayers, in prints very soon. Watch out for it, [madness] (Thy redemption draweth nigh). |
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[cuprousyphallus] Yes we can. |
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-cephalous means "-headed" and is an entirely valid spelling as such. |
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Well, you'll have to ask him - but that's what the name means. |
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Jim must've logged on to The Pirate Bay. |
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I bought a 3D printer, but my name is not Jim. |
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I googled the latest lamborghini cad files and pressed print. |
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My 3D printer has printed out a 2D Google page. |
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[Giblet] what you need is a 4D printer. |
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This is an intriguing yet misunderstood idea ridden with urban legends. What this idea suggests is a computer derived model taken from a collaborative efforts of designers (both inside and outside), enthusiasts, collectors, engineers, and selected avid consumers and pool of end-users gathered for thorough survey. |
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The scaled-down model could be made out of plastics, hardwood, fiberboard, soft-metals, or composites. It is produced perhaps by rapid-prototyping machine, CNC machine, and/or adaptive molding machine. At the final phase is the customized painting process, better known by [madness] as 3D printing, that would surely capture the fancy of Jim's mental image of what ought an inspiring dream supercar should be! |
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I'd be a pretty disappointing customer: my "dream car" is an 82 Audi 5000 converted to hybrid diesel/electric... or a Ford Escort - same. |
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//He's dung-headed?//
I prefer the translation "shit-for-brains".
I like to think it is slightly ironic, a little like [fastthinker].
I also like [jame_what]'s copper knob. |
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Back to capital affairs: I prefer "having a head" for "-cephalous", thus inferring "dung with head" rather than the straightforward "dunghead" which I conjecture to have been the appellee's intention. |
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No, because copro- is adjectival. You get "having a dung-head", which isn't so different from previous guesses. |
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Nope - begging once more to differ. "Coprophagous" requires "copro" to be a noun, unless my head is full of it. |
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would this work with bittorrent? :) |
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What, the "coprocephalous" discussion? |
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Mentioning bittorrent only adds to the obviousness of the file-sharing part of this post. Sharing info is baked all to hell, and progress in doing so should be obvious to the maddest. |
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Stealing industrial designs has also been done. But car companies still do their damnedest to keep their new designs as secret as possible. Thinking that Lamborghini will let their new designs onto the net before they are in the dealerships is just madness. |
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If we all had copper knobs I wonder how long it would be before the first epidemic of Copper O'Syphilis? |
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Not to mention a lot of surplus Disgruntled Policeman's Balls. |
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