h a l f b a k e r y"Not baked goods, Professor; baked bads!" -- The Tick
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Most people are paranoid about asbestos fibres.
In reality, they're not that dangerous, but it's another bogeyman that frightens the tree-hugging organic yoghurt brigade out of their minuscule minds (if any).
The other thing about asbestos is there's an awful lot of it about, so it's easy to obtain
unobtrusively and in large quantities.
So, working on the basis of "embuggerance", contaminating a major population centre with asbestos would be quick, cheap, and hugely disruptive.
Having obtained a quantity of - for example - asbestos cement roofing panels, don a simple full-face respirator and feed them into a regular garden shredder, collecting the output in sturdy plastic bags. Then, feed the resultant granules through something like an agricultural feed mill.
Now, all you need is a leaf blower, a moderately sized van or truck, calm dry weather, and darkness. Then just drive round your target area while your assistant offers the bags of powder to the greedy maw of the blower, sending a fountain of contamination high into the air.
Retire to a safe distance, and inform the local authorities - or better, the gutter press - of the situation. Et viola ! Panic, evacuations, finger pointing, massive, prolonged and hideously expensive decontamination - because no-one's going to go back until they're sure it's safe, and can you trust the government ? No, of course you can't ...
As an improvised means of area denial, it has a lot going for it.
Monomyristic sucrose ester
https://pubchem.ncb.../161558#section=Top
chemspider knows all [Loris, May 08 2018]
Monsanto poisons an entire town
http://naturalsocie...poisoned-herbicide/
[xenzag, May 08 2018]
John Harvard
https://en.wikipedi...Harvard_(clergyman)
He'd probably have been quite pleased. [8th of 7, May 11 2018]
[link]
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"And tonight, we report on new government-funded research
showing that low levels of asbestos can significantly slow the
progress of Alzheimers, as well as alleviating the symptoms of
erectile dysfunction. But first, Quentin Springvalve on the
property price boom in central London." |
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It becomes a question of who controls the media, which is
quite often the government. Or indeed who controls the rain,
which would rapidly alleviate the problem. |
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All you need to do to cause a rapid panic induced
evacuation of a built up area is to find a suitably
large empty field in the vicinity, and plant a big
sign in it with a nice rendering of a building
covered with shiny tubing and the words 'Site of
New Monsanto Regional Production Factory' |
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You're right, [xen] dear. There would be an unchecked rush
for the new jobs. |
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Will there be opening-day free samples, do you think ? If so, where does the queue start ? |
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//an unchecked rush for the new job// ha - there
are only so many people who want to end up
growing extra unwanted fingers out the back of
their heads. |
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Unwanted ? Who wouldn't want extra fingers ? You could scratch your scalp without moving your arms, and they'd be great for holding pens, keeping your hat on in windy conditions, and gesturing covertly to people sitting behind you. |
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If you could get them on both heads, that would be even better ... |
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[xen], mon amie, it must take a very special effort to
achieve such a deep, broad and fundamental ignorance of
an entire discipline. Do you not find the froth drips onto
your keyboard? |
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Rest assured, if there were money in postcranial digits,
Monsanto would have it sorted by now. Alas, there is not,
and their interests lie elsewhere. |
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Personally, if my own life revolved around hating Monsanto,
I would at least feel it not completely unwise to learn a
little about them (or, indeed, anything), if only to be able
to insult them without looking like a complete dorquette. |
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Agent Orange would have done a much better job
of total extermination - Monsanto's finest product
of course. |
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Unfortunately, 2,4,5-T is only a selective herbicide. |
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Ideally, herbicides should be fast-acting, nonselective, and highly persistent. Cadmium chlorate is excellent as not only does the chlorate kill the vegetation, but the highly toxic heavy metal prevents regrowth. |
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Sadly the Eco-fascists seem to have a bit of an attitude when it comes to such useful materials, but we have established that an annual dousing with used engine oil can be highly beneficial for any remaining outdoor areas not already covered by impervious material. Sump oil is also excellent as a timber preservative, and keeps it free from mould and rot right up to the moment when it's finally time to set fire to it. |
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//Ideally, herbicides should be fast-acting, nonselective, and
highly persistent. // Surely the persistence depends on the
context? There may be many situations where you want to
clear vegetation but leave the land useable. This is why
glyphosate is so superb - kills all known plants, but breaks
down on contact with soil into CO2 and water. It's basically
the chemical equivalent of a flamethrower. |
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“The use of lawn chemicals accounts for the
majority of wildlife poisonings reported to the
Environmental Protection Agency.” |
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Asbestos sounds a bit dangerous. |
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Why not use [(2S,3R,4S,5S,6R)-2- [(2S,3S,4S,5R)-3,4-dihydroxy-
2,5-
bis(hydroxymethyl) oxolan-2-yl]- 3,4,5-trihydroxy- 6-
(hydroxymethyl) oxan-2-yl] tetradecanoate? |
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The name ought to be sufficiently complex and technical to scare
off
the ill-informed, but the long-term environmental effects will be
greatly
reduced. |
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It's also quite cheap in quantity. |
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Pouring whisky on the lawn has the desirable effect
that it comes up half cut. |
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OK. I'm not a chemist, but that's a very detailed structural
description of a molecule with very few actual elements. I can
spot hydrogen and oxygen (as in water), and I think the methyl
groups imply carbon. So, is it a carbohydrate? -
just so I know whether to eat it before bedtime, you understand. |
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Yup. It's sucrose. Perfectly safe before bedtime, though personally I
consume more of it in the mornings. |
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// [(2S,3R,4S,5S,6R)-2- [(2S,3S,4S,5R)-3,4-dihydroxy- 2,5- bis(hydroxymethyl) oxolan-2-yl]- 3,4,5-trihydroxy- 6- (hydroxymethyl) oxan-2-yl] tetradecanoate // |
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Sucrose is :
(2R,3R,4S,5S,6R)-2- [(2S,3S,4S,5R)-3,4-dihydroxy- 2,5-bis(hydroxymethyl) oxolan-2-yl] oxy-6-(hydroxymethyl) oxane-3,4,5-triol |
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so no, it's not quite sucrose. You've got an inverted group or two, and something like myristic acid on the end. |
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edit:
Found it: "Sucrose, monomyristate", or Monomyristic sucrose ester (thank you chemSpider) |
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Whoops. Serves me right for trusting the internet, I suppose.
Thanks [Loris]! |
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// many situations where you want to clear vegetation but leave the land useable // |
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Useable for what, exactly ? |
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Taxiing areas for aircraft. Parking areas for ground vehicles. Storage space for weaponry. Chemical plants. Fuel storage. Landing areas for Cubes. |
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What else is there of any significance ? |
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Lakes of organic yogurt for a start, with armies of
happy cats grooming themselves from the comfort
of heated inflatables drifting along in the warm air
generated by the roaring flames issuing from the
burning Monsanto factories. |
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//cats// //inflatables// Am I the only one that sees a
potential problem there? |
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//What else is there of any significance ?// Oh, pshaw, [8th].
We've been round the cube once while you were out. Wicker
and rattan everywhere. And don't pretend you synthesised it -
we found the World of Wicker catalogue under your bed along
with... well, we found the World of Wicker catalogue anyway. |
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See last link - fines are great, but other activites
are much more effective. |
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The unbiased and neutral perspective of that article reassures
me that it's completely true, mon amie. And my aunt is a
pigeon. |
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Seriously, [xen], if you are so dead set against Monsanto, does
it not behove you to learn a little about the enemy? Frothing
is jolly good fun, but it doesn't accomplish anything.
Reasoned arguments seldom accomplish anything either, but
they're more interesting. |
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// we found the World of Wicker catalogue anyway. // |
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Yes, OK, you got us there. |
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But did you notice it fell open at the "Wicker Man" page ? The one with all the greasy thumbprints and the ... errr ... other biological stains ? |
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//under your bed along with...// |
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Given the context, perhaps you found some gloating photographs
of people dying of mesothelioma? |
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[MB], we told you, no guests ... |
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And technically it isn't gloating, just academic interest. |
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I think with our dumbed-down society you could probably
get good results using gluten. |
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I always wondered if the dirty bomb scare was a planted
idea to get the terrorists to give up on getting a real
nuclear bomb and waste their time with a device that
would be defused simply by a news broadcast saying
"Don't panic and stay indoors until we clean up a couple
of areas." since the main deadly effect of a dirty bomb
would be panic. |
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The comparison of these two "nuclear bombs" has got to
be a plant. It's like calling a rifle bullet and a beanbag
"offensive projectiles". It's technically correct but one is
very deadly, the other, not so much. |
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No. This is something that Israel takes seriously
enough to do a test for. |
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//No. This is something that Israel takes seriously
enough to do a test for.// |
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No yourself. I'm not saying it's harmless, I'm saying it's not
as
bad as
some people (like you maybe) make it out to be and it's
nowhere
near the threat of a nuclear bomb going off in a
populated area despite having the same amount of
hysteria surrounding reporting on its possible use. |
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Manhattan will not be uninhabitable for a million years if
somebody lights a paper bag full of uranium on fire, sets
in
on the Trump tower front doorstep and rings the
doorbell. |
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What was on your mind, when you came up with this,
[8th of 7]? |
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//technically it isn't gloating,// |
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It's interstellar hegemonizing swarms like you, [8th], that give
academic interest a bad name. |
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// What was on your mind, when you came up with this // |
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A large quantity of asbestos sheeting that will be expensive to remove and dispose of by conventional means. This idea neatly puts the cost on someone else. |
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//Most people are paranoid about asbestos fibres.//
Prove it! Most people don't give them a second thought, I suspect. Even in the pub, near closing time, I have yet to hear someone* confiding, to some bleary-eyed stranger standing at the bar, that asbestos is out to get them. "It's everywhere, you know. Watching. Waiting. Looking for its moment to strike when you least expect it."
Also, tell me more about tree-hugging organic yoghurt. It sounds tasty! Mmm! Mmm! Mmmmmm!
*Other than me, that is. |
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// tell me more about tree-hugging organic yoghurt // |
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It's a totally pure vegan product made from ethically-harvested tree sap by blind Buddhist orphans, prepared and transported in ethnic hand-carved stone bowls, has a shelf life measured in minutes, costs most of your monthly salary for a teaspoon-sized portion, and tastes utterly disgusting. |
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But you get a warm rosy glow from the sense of moral superiority it delivers, although more often than not it's actually heartburn. |
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//But you get a warm rosy glow from the sense of moral
superiority it delivers.// |
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Silly concept, billion dollar product branding idea. |
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"Mother Earth brand yogurt, superior yogurt... for
superior
people." |
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(Show a hillbilly eating the leading competing brand of
yogurt holding a misspelled Trump support sign as the
androgynous, smug, Birkenstock wearing hipster eating
Mother Earth brand yogurt walks by with a smirk shaking
their head.) |
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And it would be very important to make it taste, if not
horrible, as bland and tasteless as possible. Think tofu
without all the flavor. Or wallpaper paste. |
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No no no, you need to show the toothless Trump supporter
_evolving_into_ a Stanford professor. |
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The economic damage caused by a dirty bomb or two
would be huge. That's the reality of it. And that great
fear of the unknown bugaboo would quickly become a
terrorist's most popular weapon of choice because of it. |
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In New York, there's a perfectly wonderful bit of real
estate that was formerly occupied by two largish towers,
which are now largish decorative and impractical holes in
the ground, because they want them that way. |
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Planes were grounded everywhere because we didn't know
how many more might be an issue. The entire nation
basically stopped for a few days and gawked at CNN. |
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Dirty bombs bring that same unknown, uncontrolled
nightmare to people's minds, and no longer tie it to a
plane, but to any random backpack in any random
location. |
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Nukes bring a very KNOWN outcome, a smoking pile of
rubble where a city once stood. |
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A terror device that might not actually kill anybody
doesn't keep me up at night. |
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If you want something to fret over at three in the
morning, look up what might be accomplished with wide
spread dispersal of anthrax. |
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The terrorists already know this so I'm not giving anybody
any new ideas, but the holy grail of terror devices is a
crude nuclear bomb hidden in a shipping container.
Picture a howitzer with a cap at the end of the barrel and
a shell both made of weapons grade uranium. So about
the size
of a small bus. Impossible to guard against and you've got
a real body count, collapse of infrastructure and
economic ruin. |
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That being said, we'd survive and be motivated enough to
destroy the country or group that did it so, not a good
idea terrorists. |
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[8th], we're all lucky you're not a real terrorist yet. [+] |
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The "yet" is very relevant. You're not being "lucky" at all; it's just a matter of continuing the regular payments. |
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// a howitzer with a cap at the end of the barrel and a shell made of weapon's grade uranium so about the size of a small bus. // |
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You don't need a howitzer - remember, it's single-use. With a slightly longer tube, it can actually be recoilless, which makes the fabrication of the target holder easier; decent steel is perfectly good enough. |
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The whole assembly isn't that much bigger than Little Boy - longer and thinner, though. You certainly don't need anything the size of a freight container. The problem is getting all that HEU, since there aren't many (any) facilities making weapons-grade Uranium any more. There's no point, no-one's made bombs that way since the 1950's. |
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We've got lumps of it round the back. |
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It may kill them, just slowly as the radiation
sickness sets in. |
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//You don't need a howitzer - remember, it's
single-
use.// |
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The cannon doesn't shoot anything, it's just an easy
off
the shelf mechanism to slap the two pieces of
fissile
material together. |
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You mill the cap, secured tightly to the end of the
barrel, to properly receive the milled
uranium shell accelerated by a propellent filled
cartridge. When fired, the shell slams into the cap
and the whole thing blows up. |
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Supposedly making the bomb is the easy part, it's
getting the fissel material together that requires a
small city full of labs, centerfuges and such. |
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I think it's quite difficult to get a true nuclear explosion. If
the parts aren't brought together properly and held there for
the necessary microseconds, you get a fizzle instead. |
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Both HEU and Pu will go supercritical from prompt neutrons alone. Gun-type Uranium gadgets don't capture the slug - the Little Boy target assembly consisted of HEU annula in a tungsten frame; Godiva devices are the same. |
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Implosion devices use "squeeze" to get fission out of a subcritical mass, there's no need to maintain the geometry once it's fissioning. |
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STURTON - PUT THE HAMMER AWAY. |
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I think you're talking about super efficient American
style cutting edge technology nukes. I'm talking
about a crude nuclear weapon that could take out a
few city blocks. |
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Point is, you want something to worry about, there
you go. |
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How about a few kg of ricin, dispersed on a windy day in
central New York by means of a modest explosion? Ricin isn't
hard to make and, if the lethal dose by inhalation is similar to
that by ingestion, you'd kill everybody in quite a wide radius. |
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Yes, but it's not persistent. |
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You want an agent that is not only effective in very low doses,
but also resistant to environmental degradation, difficult to
detect at low levels, and difficult to remove. |
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The object is area denial, not temporary interdiction. |
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disposable diapers or cat pee, then. |
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When people are dead, it's usually persistent. |
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Only the wealthy and powerful; the poor vanish with nary a trace. |
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Well, if the poor would put a little more effort into their
mausoleums... they've only themselves to blame, really. And
surely even the poorest among us can afford to endow a
library or college, even if it's only at a redbrick. |
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Rich guys should leave a funny legacy that people would
actually notice. "This wing of the Stanford Research Hospital
built by a grant from I.C. Weiner." The Ben Dover memorial
proctology building, that sort of thing. You might actually
get some appreciation from people rather than folks seeing
your name on a college sports arena and saying "So you got a
building named after you eh? Well you're dead now you top
hat wearing asshole." |
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Sometimes a modest bequest can be spectacularly effective. <link> |
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How many billions of dollars are we spending on
security lately? What was our anti-terrorism
budget last year? |
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