h a l f b a k e r yClearly this is a metaphor for something.
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Waves of illegal immigration are a DoS attack on the American economic infrastructure and job market.
The idea is a propaganda strategy for anti-immigration bills targeted at America's growing base of young voters. They don't seem to know what terms like 'depressed wages' mean (Wages don't have
feelings,
do they?). But every young, tech-savvy voter knows what a Denial-of-Service attack is.
Waves within waves.
http://www.youtube....watch?v=mcMP7eiKrSg
Muchas Gracias, [popbottle, Nov 17 2013]
Immigration and farm labor
http://pubs.ext.vt....e_2_fbmu-10-11.html
[RayfordSteele, Nov 18 2013]
Do Americans want farm work?
http://www.huffingt...mwork_n_740178.html
Frankly, no. [RayfordSteele, Nov 20 2013]
Here's the Bureau of Labor's actual estimate
http://www.ers.usda...nd.aspx#legalstatus
Hovering around half. [RayfordSteele, Nov 20 2013]
[link]
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//Waves of illegal immigration
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Were those the 1629-ish ones, or were you thinking of something more contemporary? |
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You feel overhwhelmed by the hoardes of other masses.
You want little APC 21_Quests to live free in 'merica and
start flame wars online for generations to come.
Everyone has a rising, burning xenophobia deep down in
there spermatozoons. You feel outgunned in a large
scale
Alamo holed up with little bitches who won't put up to
the task of giving you seven, eight little ones because of
some crazy ass ideas by some dumb ass feminists. You're
out gunned in a fucking war, not a fighting war and you
want to build a big wall to stop the cumming from
coming. What are you gonna do? Post some little idea
on the Internets? Or don't worry about it. There's
enough 'merica to go around for everybody. So relax,
and let the zerglings spawn. Get your bunker built early
and stimpack some firebats, and you're all set for the
long game of nukes and BCs. |
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//Were those the 1629-ish ones, or were you thinking of
something more contemporary?//
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We all know who needs to be kept out. It's those crack-smoking
Canadians. Look at the Toronto mayor, he's clearly already eating
his OWN people out of house and home. Therefore the next
wave will undoubtedly be coming from the north as they flee
their home into ours. |
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They'll be coming to your house, and taking food out of
your refigerator.
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As for Canada, I live there and I don't give a shit about
immigration. I don't care about future generations, or if
the country exists tomorrow. I had a chance to see life,
and it's just masses that when you look at it with a
microscope has individual feelings and personalities and
shit. Who cares about these masses. Once you die it's
as good as gone, lack of perception of time results in
instantaneous destruction and reformation of the
universe until your rebirth. Don't worry about the big
picture, just
enjoy your own life and don't let masses stress you out. |
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When the hoards of jobless Americans actually go
start to compete with the immigrants for jobs in the
fields picking apples, then I'll start to feel some
sympathy. |
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I want some words with the folks hoarding them. They should stick to cats. |
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[bungs], have you ever tried to hoard cats ? It's a special talent, usually only possessed by mad little old ladies. |
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//When the hoards of jobless Americans actually go start to compete with the immigrants for jobs in the fields picking apples,//
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In every industry where illegal immigrant labor is prevalent, legal citizens hold the majority of jobs. It is not true that Americans won't do the work. American citizens (for the most part) simply won't do it for half the wage they are legally entitled to. A few years back, I took a job on a construction site in Richland, WA. I was doing grunt work, digging trenches for foundation footings and building/tearing down forms, right alongside 2 truckloads of Mexican migrant workers who were doing exactly the same job as me but getting paid half as much (I think I was getting something like 12.00 per hour compared to their 6.75). I was lucky that I got recruited by a good agency. There was another guy (legal American citizen) working alongside me as well for 9.75 per hour. When he found out how much I was getting, he confronted the foreman about it and they immediately raised his wage to equal mine. Illegal migrant workers can't do that. They complain, they get threatened with deportation. If accepting a sub-prevailing or a sub-minimum wage is what you call 'competing', they (legal citizens) shouldn't have to. It's easy for illegal immigrants to get by on pennies a day because they often have half a dozen earners living in squalid conditions under the same roof in neighborhoods where their very presence has (conveniently) depreciated property values and, accordingly, rent. |
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// half a dozen earners living in squalid conditions under the same roof in neighborhoods where their very presence has (conveniently) depreciated property values and, accordingly, rent. //
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That sounds uncannily like elected members of the House of Commons, with all of them claiming expenses ... |
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Estimates are that 60% of migrant farm workers are
undocumented.
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Mississippi tried a hard line stance on migrant worker
documentation. They paid the price because not
enough Americans showed up to do the work. |
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Sounds to me like the major problem is exploitative employment, enabled by the lack of national ID and lax enforcement of basic labor standards. Seems like most "kids these days" are smart enough to understand that. It's a snap to fix this stuff, but when you live a plutocracy the law isn't written for the betterment of the populace, it's written for the sustenance of those with the money to have power.
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Welcome to the USA; if you are so smart why aren't you rich? Must be something wrong with you. Also, stop depressing my wages 21Q anyone willing to dig a ditch for minimum wage is undermining my small business which rents out tiny excavators which can dig a trench twice as fast, while burning super cheap $2.50/g off road diesel. |
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//not enough Americans showed up to do the work.//
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And what was the wage being offered for this work? If they were hoping Americans would show up to do the work for the same sub-standard wage as the migrants who just got run out for depressing the wages, it was an unrealistic expectation to begin with. Immigration crackdowns are supposed to increase wages, that's the whole point. American citizens (generally) go where
the money is. But, you'll probably say, higher wages for farm workers will almost certainly translate to higher food prices. My response to that is simple: if Americans are getting paid higher wages, they can AFFORD slightly higher food prices.
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//Estimates are that 60% of migrant farm workers are undocumented.//
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Tentatively granted, but what percentage of all farm workers are migratory? I ask because most statistics *I* have read indicate that over 50% of all farm workers in the US are citizens or legal residents.
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Also, and this is largely a pedantic point, I'd like to point out that apples are generally picked in orchards, not in fields.
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To summarize my point: open, unchecked immigration is a Denial of Service attack on the American economy. It denies citizens jobs, and it denies them a fair wage for many of the jobs they get. It costs our government money (for hospital visits that never get paid for by the patients, for enforcement and litigation, for paying welfare to huge numbers of illegal immigrants using stolen identities and legal immigrants who came here for the welfare benefits being offered, as well as the cost of detention for illegal migrants going through removal proceedings), which in turn is passed onto poor and wealthy American citizens alike in the form of tax increases and government shutdowns which occur when politicians can't agree on how to implement such tax increases. |
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Rayford, from your own link: //Economist Phillip Martin estimated that about 1.2 million or 48% of the 2.5 million persons employed for wages on United States farms are undocumented.//
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48%, while a sizable minority, is still that: A minority. That figure means 52% of all farm workers (over half) are citizens or legal immigrants with laws in place to protect them from wage exploitation. "Won't show up" my arse.
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The fact, however, that nearly half of our farm workers are undocumented and therefore almost certainly working for substandard wages underscores the scope of the problem. That's 1.2 million jobs that unemployed Americans would happily take if a fair wage were being offered. That means 1.2 million citizens getting off welfare (or at least reducing their welfare consumption). That's a huge boon to our beleaguered tax budget. |
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Probably if they kept raising the wage, they would get a higher and higher quality of American worker. Eventually there would be a wage at which they could get people willing to reliably do almost anything, or actually anything.
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That reminds me of an apocryphal Churchill episode. Lets see if I can link it up. |
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Frankly I don't come to the bakery to have dogmatic
political arguments. There are other venues for that. |
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Didn't intend to start an argument, the idea is simply for a
marketing strategy. |
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I love it when a post appears on the HB that some folks don't like, so those folks start throwing comments out that don't stand up to scrutiny, and then those folks suddenly decide this isn't the place for such an argument. It's like picking a fight with someone in a restaurant and, as soon as you get your nose bloodied, suddenly pointing out that the women and children in the restaurant shouldn't have to witness such violence. Funny how that didn't occur to you when you were the one throwing the punches.
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Frankly, Rayford, you shouldn't have made the comments you did if you didn't feel this is the place for such an argument. Nobody has yet to comment on the usefulness of the proposed idea. |
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interesting thoughts about sociology [+]
evil [-]
wouldn't work [-] |
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Those jobs wouldn't be 'happily taken.' It's largely
not the wage that's the problem. It's the nature
of the work which is a big driving reason why most
Americans won't take it.
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60%, 48%, they're all estimates and it simply
depends on which study you look at.
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And yes, I stand behind my comment about not
generally wanting to deal with politics here. We
all know where we stand. |
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DoS implies deliberate attack by throwing "fake" requests
at the target. Immigration is nothing like that. It is not
deliberate attack. Immigration is also not fake.
Immigrants don't pretend to work in the US, they
genuinely want to be there. Immigrants also don't come
with the intention of damaging the target. The idea is
nonsense[-] |
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// Immigrants also don't come with the intention of damaging the target. //
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<Insensitive ironical comment in very poor taste>
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</Insensitive ironical comment in very poor taste> |
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When they apply for welfare benefits using stolen SSNs, those are
fake requests.When their government blatantly encourages them to
come here, that is deliberate. When they send every penny they make
back to their home country, that doesn't show a desire to he here. |
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As analogies go, immigration is to DoS what internet is to series of tubes. I think the comparison is too opaque for less tech savvy people and is too weakly parallel for more tech savvy people. |
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