h a l f b a k e r yExpensive, difficult, slightly dangerous, not particularly effective... I'm on a roll.
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When viewing ideas, I read the idea, think, maybe I don't
agree, but wouldn't dare to annotate in a negative manner
because it is an idea of a regular hb.
If the idea was anonymous until there was a vote, then
maybe
the annotations would be different. !!
Name that 'Baker
http://www.halfbake..._27Baker#1005068997
The most likely outcome of an anonymously posted idea...? [waugsqueke, Feb 01 2002]
everyone on E2
http://www.everythi...x.pl?node_id=373682
Everything2 has an anonymous account called "everyone", that used to be free for all, but now you have to ask to get the password. [pottedstu, Feb 03 2002, last modified Oct 04 2004]
E2: Why have an anonymous account
http://www.everythi...x.pl?node_id=609718
Many of the reasons aren't relevant; but follow the links at the bottom to see the debate. [pottedstu, Feb 03 2002, last modified Oct 04 2004]
[link]
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Why wouldn't you negatively annotate an idea from a regular halfbaker? |
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Yeah, there's no reason not to. Remember: Everything you know is wrong. |
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I don't agree with you arora but it's an interesting thought. I have often wondered if the first annotation sets the mode for much of the rest particularly if its from one of those three. croissant for starting an interesting debate. |
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Do you have any idea what happens to people who fear veterans? Ain't pretty. |
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(Seriously though, I had the same concern when I arrived. Just watch your step for a bit, get a feel for the place, let the animals get used to your scent and you'll be fine. Disregard the business with [GeorgeTheRobin] - he was poking at the hornet's nest with a stick and drew the wrath of the colony. HalfBakers aren't always as tolerant as we like to think we are, but we're no worse than any other cross-section of the English-speaking world.) |
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All that said, I have to fishbone this idea - and I'm not going to tell you why. |
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Please don't think I am suggesting regular HB's have bad
ideas, I just think that everyone is influenced by the HB's
past performance, this is reflected in annotations
whether the current idea is good or bad. Newbies (I don't
really like that tag, maybe something more mature would
be appropriate) would'nt be up for so many insults if
everyone suspected they were a regular, therefore not
putting us/them on the immediate defense. |
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I like the idea of finding out who authored the idea only after you have voted. I recon the name of the author can play a little on our judgement of the idea, no matter how we try not to. Example: I'm currently finding it hard not to fishbone all of GeorgeTheRobin's ideas for no other reason than some of his previous annotiations. Which I know is very unfair. |
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EVERYBODY has bad ideas at some point. As long as you're not a troll <waves at the troll and his sock puppet> nobody minds. Don't post ideas requiring magic, don't start screaming and calling everyone doodyheads when your idea isn't immediately showered with croissants, and if it's necessary to defend it, do so with intelligence and facts as opposed to ad hominem and 'because I said it should!', and you're safe from me and most of the regulars. |
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Well, I don't have trouble going against the grain, but my feelings are hurt rather easily. ravenswood, I guess my hide just isn't as thick as it should be. Croissant. |
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I think there's something here; knowledge of the author and the existing votes definitely influence my reaction.
Of course, spelling, punctuation, and style of argument are going to give the author away no matter what. |
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Aside from mere obeisance, I'd have to agree with everything Jutta just said. Contrary to the way many "creative" minds think, spelling, punctuation, and the ability to communicate effectively count in both getting your idea across and being popular here in the Bakery environs. Very few, if any, dim people contribute or annotate to the Bakery with any regularity; It is pretty safe to assume that nearly all of the people who visit here are well above average in intelligence. The sorting grounds become maturity and experience, technical expertise and specialized knowledge, cultural education and artistic accomplishments, business acumen and sheer intuition (or just good instincts, if you prefer). How much care one takes in presenting ideas and commentary (regardless of maturity, education, or success in life and occupation) say volumes about the individual...and the results are directly and predictably proportional . So, speak your mind; be clear; be specific; take care with your spelling and grammar; and be fearless of other Bakers' wrath. Given those parameters, I think we can all be assured of a very good time. |
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It's common for polls, online & certainly otherwise, to tell you the current results only after you yourself have voted. |
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Nothing on the 'user page'; [arora] really is anonymous. |
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I don't see this as a problem, arora. It's nice to see someone showing due deference to their (halfbakery) elders. If there were more people like you, I'd have a lot more croissants in my collection by now. |
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Knowing the author of an idea, particularly if that author is a long-standing 'baker, helps one to appreciate the intent behind the idea, even though it may not have been perfectly stated. This can reduce misunderstandings. |
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There's nothing to stop you creating a new account and writing under the new identity, although I believe this type of activity is frowned upon and I *certainly* would never ever have done it a few times occasionally, ever. |
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As jutta alluded, anonymous ideas would likely degenerate into an annotative round of 'Stew's "Name that Baker". |
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In light of angel's observation, that knowing the author often helps to understand the motivation and intent of the idea, I would agree there is some level of influence. There are certainly some bakers whose ideas I'm more likely to read 'positively'... beauxeault, for example, or bris. But I know I've fishboned a PeterSealy or a UnaBubba without hesitation if I didn't like it. I think I've even fishboned one of your ideas, jutta. (*account mysteriously disappears*) |
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Perhaps there could be a halfbakery feature where you could enter ideas "blind" (where you can't see author, votes, annotations, or links) and vote on/annotate the idea for what it really is. If you wanted to see the annotations and votes, there of course would be a "reveal" button. |
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I take it the optional version is not for the people who have the name of the poster before they click on the idea... (I admit it - I'm one of them) |
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How about a few days where all the names are taken off the hb... anotations are numbered so if you want to refer to an anotation you would refer to anotation 3 or something? |
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This is easily bakeable. Anyone could set up an account called Anonymous with the password on the user page (or left blank). Anyone who wants to post anonymously could then logon as Anonymous and put up their idea. |
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There are plenty of problems with this, of course. You'd have to trust that no-one's going to vandalise the account, delete other people's ideas, use it to troll, etc.. I'm not at all sure that it's a good idea; I'm not even sure if it might go against the spirit of the 1/2B, in jutta's opinion. But it might be interesting to see how 1/2bakers responded to your idea without knowing whether you were an older baker or a newer one. I think there is some influence there - leeway given to old hands that's not given to rookies. |
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I am absolutely convinced this is a good idea. It is quite clear to me that many folks voting and annotations are quite strongly influenced by the identity of the author. Quite regularly I see ideas posted by regulars get showered with croissants that would have been positively savaged had they come from a new person. (And the reverse). Why not level the playing field a little? |
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arora, you worry too much!! you can express your own opinion, this is what the site's about! |
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I love this idea... can anyone tell me what "trolling" is though? |
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trolls? what supercat and po? |
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Yes - I posted a link for you over on your idea where the *troll* question had been asked by your elf, Pericles. |
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The halfbakery is very serious buisness. I think voting should be conducted accordingly. |
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I hope this idea is still under consideration--I like it.
I suggest idea authors have the option of hidng their identity. They can choose to take credit immediately, or hide under the moniker "anonymous coward" until it feels safe to reveal who they are (if at all).
("anonymous coward" is the name used by many comment boards for unregistered posts) |
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No one here knows who I am. |
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Alternately, we could have anonymous annos instead. |
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Sort of what Rods said, I guess... an anonymous account could be created, and everyone could be issued with the password after posting, say, their first 5 ideas. Users could be allowed to use it once a week to prevent abuse, and we could all play an amusing little game where we try to guess which regular it really is behind the veil of anonymity.
After being around for a bit, maybe the anonymous posts could be credited to their real user, at their discretion of course. |
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Against. If one is not prepared to stand behind an idea, one should not post it. Besides, it'll screw up the filtering. |
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<rant>I'm sorry, but if you don't have the backbone to voice your opinions on a website where you are effectively annonymous (just a name), I think you'll have real problems in life.</rant> |
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[world] but we all know who you are and any minute now there will be a curry-special link to the end of your road. |
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And yet I speak up just the same. Funny, that. |
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Besides, I've already posted my whole name. It's Worldgineer Helpspluterdaycoolyuppies III. |
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you take us for fools? you're never a III. |
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You're sweet, po. <blush/> Yeah, I guess I'm a 10. |
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Yeah, ideas do get influenced. Look at my latest idea. Even though it hasn't gotten any negative feedback, it still has 2 bones! I belive this is because most of my ideas are usually boned and because it is second nature for most people. |
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Disregard my last anno. The recent ideas are getting buns. Strangely. I think it might be a combination of it being an actual good idea combined with my starting to seem like a regular (I blame my anno's!) and a few unknown variables |
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All of this posting and not a single [Vernon] or [Desert Fox] reference? |
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Ha, heh, ha ha. Very funny. |
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[pseudonym], when an account publishes spam or turns out to vote for the second time for the same person, I delete that account. That's true even for an account that you created specifically to let other people freely use it - it's not going to outlast the first spammer or idiot that takes advantage of your generous offer of my time and resources. |
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The other day, I've for the first time seen a spammer take over someone else's account on the halfbakery, because that person had an easily guessable password. That's probably easy enough in just about any online forum, so I'm not surprised to see people try it - but it's still weird to have people go for such a low-value target. |
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I thought they were kidding, no? |
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/go for such a low-value target/
it is interesting. Either 1. poor judgement as regards targets 2. shotgun hitting all targets of all values 3. spammer perceives HB to have high enough value to justify effort. |
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HB posts often do rank highly with google. Maybe that is why? |
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The trick is, not to let the regulars smell your fear. |
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As to the idea, I think a Greasemonkey script could be cooked up to present such a view to the user if they choose. Strictly a client side implementation though; I think we all know the likelihood of structural changes to the HB itself is vanishingly small. |
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Not sure that I agree with that, Bunsen. If an idea is good enough and simple enough to implement then it will probably get done. I think the reality is that the likelihood of any one of us coming up with such an idea is vanishingly small! |
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[-] meh... started a mildly interesting discussion of user-dynamics, but the idea's crap... |
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Every once in awhile I trip over a heavily anno'd post concerned with user identites, for instance beanie being treon seems to have generated quite a bit of column length... but I wasn't here at the time and I don't give a shit. And while UB disappearing into a black hole bothered me quite a bit, the only significance it would have to non-users and newbies are the run-in-the-stocking annos and broken links. |
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It may not happen overnight but it will happen. Stay tuned. |
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// HB posts often do rank highly with google // |
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I'm pretty sure they only do that with us because as a group, we're more likely to Google something like "custard" and "speed-bump" together, then we get drawn to this place and trapped. |
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are you saying that we're all not quite the *thing*? |
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// we get drawn to this place and trapped. // |
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It's been almost four years, and I'm still trying to gnaw
through my leg to get free. |
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Aren't we all above being below such behaviour, or is that the other way 'round? |
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You should know by now that nothing is below me,
especially if I think I can get a cheap laugh out of it. |
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Cheap laughs offer the most value for money. |
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