I am thinking of buying a truly wilderness property which is only accessible by a trail - never mind an ATV path - just a footpath.
So, how to get a vehicle to my site without the huge cost of making a road?
Well, first of all, the path needs to be cut wide enough to accomodate a vehicle. So cut down the trees to at least that width, keeping stumps below say a foot high.
Next, construct wheels that are are like metal wagon wheels - but without the ring on the outside - say with 8 spikes, not sharp on the ends. There COULD be a few reinforcing bands say a foot from the ends of the spikes, but we want spikes so that we will miss more stumps than we will hit. These wheels would have to also be made in such a way that they first extend OUT from the hubs far enough to clear the fenders etc. I suppose sharp turns would be impossible too because that would cause the wheels (spikes) to hit the fenders. Attach these either in place of or overtop of existing wheels. This way when the vehicle moves it can go right over stumps without getting stuck.
This would be ideal for a truck with a super low transfer case gearing, to provide enough torque to move those terribly large diameter wheels.-- marquisdenet, Jun 30 2009 shameless elf promotion Wonky_20Wheel_20Wheelchairthe rims can turn inwards for the effect you're looking for [FlyingToaster, Jun 30 2009] N'dat's what I'm talkin bout! http://www.ubergizm...r_gets_to_work.html [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jun 30 2009] Road Roller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_rollerReplace hard wheels with jelly wheels, and you're set. [swimswim, Jul 01 2009] (?) Shrimp fishing from horseback http://blip.tv/file/349331I love those big beautiful draft horses [normzone, Jul 01 2009] And still more fishing from horseback http://www.civiliza...images/lilur42b.jpg [normzone, Jul 01 2009] Carbide sawchain http://www.carbidechain.com/For your stumpcutting needs, if you dont mind spending a thousand bucks on sawchain [afinehowdoyoudo, Jul 02 2009] This is what you need, [marquis] http://www.break.co...-reject1866479.html [swimswim, Jun 17 2010] No, This is what you need [marquis-de-sad] http://www.google.c...eid=ie7&rlz=1I7WZPA [4whom, Jun 17 2010] Way too simple a solution. You either need to pack the vehicle in, one component at a time, and assemble on site, or have it shot out of an artillery unit, and parachute it in.-- normzone, Jun 30 2009 I'm sorry, I must have missed something, how are these wheels superior to conventional huge knobby or paddle tires? Do you have any off road/trail experience? IMHO you are going to have very limited traction due to the general lack of grip and compliance that a solid wheel provides. Also, due to the extremely small contact patch you are going to tend to sink and dig on loose substrate.-- WcW, Jun 30 2009 How to turn a wilderness into a wasteland [-]-- coprocephalous, Jun 30 2009 Minimal footprint. [link] Now where to mount the rocket launched grapple and winch system?-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jun 30 2009 They are superior to conventional tires becasue the radius would be so much bigger - say 5 or 6 ft. Grip would be from the sharp spikes jabbing into the ground. The point is that the long spikes would tend to avoid some of the stumps. Of course if the ground was swampy and soft the spikes would sink in way too far, in which case mounting 'feet' at the end of the spikes would help. Also, 2 or 3 spikes on each wheel would be in contact with the ground at any one time.
Remember I am seeing this thing going over a field of stumps. The huge radius means it won't get stuck. I suppose a truly huge wheel with a conventional off road tire would also work but the weight/cost would be prohibitive, compared to this somewhat skeletal system. Ideal would be one of those monster trucks you see at events, but this is a cheper alternative, designed to be used on an ordinary truck, and of course without any kind of handling or speed capabilities at all. Strictly designed to get you there.-- marquisdenet, Jun 30 2009 or, and I know this may seem extreme, you could simply cut the trees off at ground level and make an actual passable road. I don't know where you got the idea that if you were clearing a road you would need to leave large stumps. Under even the most extreme circumstances I imagine that a well prepared truck with conventional tires and a winch would hand you your ass.
Really the point I'm trying to make is that experience is a great teacher. You might imagine that you could cut a straight road to wherever you want to go, but inevitably it will be easier to make a "path" that winds around obstacles and takes advantage of the terrain rather than suffering it.-- WcW, Jul 01 2009 You realize that this "wheel" is not going to be round? Your 8-post wheel will be an octagon - and each corner you have to go over will be pretty much equivalent to what would happen if you hit a stump with a round wheel. So instead of having wheels that can miss stumps and ride smooth, you get 8 "stump-bumps" per wheel turn, per wheel.
//Also, 2 or 3 spikes on each wheel would be in contact with the ground at any one time.// 1 at the high part, 2 at the low part, or 3 at the "Oh, crap! Now what do we do?" part.-- lurch, Jul 01 2009 Shouldn't the title be something like: Stumpy Road Wheels?-- daseva, Jul 01 2009 What you need is a road roller (linked), except that the wheels are tubes of impenetrable kevlar fabric, and filled with jelly; rather than using wheels of inflexible steel as are common on conventional road rollers. You won't feel those stumps when plugging along in this road (jelly) roller.-- swimswim, Jul 01 2009 /except that the wheels are tubes of impenetrable kevlar fabric, and filled with jelly; rather /
yes, yes, just so. I was pondering this type of wheel. Except not a wheel: this would be a tank tread. It would go up and over the entire tank, like the early WWI tanks. It would also lop over onto the sides to get purchase on adjacent trees. The tread would be mounted on springs with give, to faciliate squeezing through tight spots. The tread would be bright purple. The whole thing would ooze along gracefully.-- bungston, Jul 01 2009 what is this obsession with stumps? you can easily cut a tree near the ground (1"-2") . This isn't done routinely by loggers (when they aren't clearing a road) because the wood at the base of the tree is harder to cut and has no lumber value.-- WcW, Jul 01 2009 Well, if you're designing your own vehicle, why make work for yourself?
Instead of cutting all those trees, make the vehicle articulate, like a snake. Take the square footage of your vehicle and make it a long rectangle. Have each segment follow the one ahead of it as you pick your way between the trees.-- normzone, Jul 01 2009 Wait, wait, wait! You don't need a jelly-roller; you need a super-sized sander. Rather than jelly wheels, the body of the vehicle rides on a revolving belt of sandpaper. This way, the more often you go out to your wilderness hermit hut, the smoother your ride will get. You'll eventually be rolling across a soft bed of sawdust. EDIT: [normzone's] snake-mobile is cooler than a sander-mobile.-- swimswim, Jul 01 2009 I agree with the above, save money get a chainsaw and an extra chain or two and make a real road. And many places even rent stump grinders which will save you some chains. Or get a Mach 5, as then you push that button for the saws and just drive on thru. Or if you still want the bumps I'd suggest Cat-Trax which are bolt on tank treads for your truck.-- MisterQED, Jul 01 2009 All of this fixation with terra ferma. Got trees - use trees! There is no reason why a suitably large vehicle (to spread weight of weighty passenger over maximal surface area) could not make its way along the tops of trees. This might prune some unneccesary high greenery but leave the forest intact.-- bungston, Jul 01 2009 If you are "thinking of buying a truly wilderness property" and are not already familiar with the readily-available and completely pre-baked mode of powered off-road transportation available at your local Jeep dealer, you may wish to reconsider your real-estate purchase until you learn a bit more about how us dumb rednecks get around in the woods.
Seriously.-- Alterother, Jul 01 2009 You can't go fishing on a horse, but you can go almost anyplace else. Or a mule, might be a more practical vehicle. Both getting to, and at, your (proposed) place.
What is your motivation for buying out in the sticks? Is it cost, or do you want the isolation?-- afinehowdoyoudo, Jul 01 2009 OK. While we're on this haywire 'road through the forest' topic... you could cut down the trees in your path, and build a road out of logs, on stumps. Notch the logs to match the stumps. Being elevated off the ground, the logs will not rot. The stumps provide great load-bearing capacity. You will likely want to invest in an alaskan mill to square off the tops of the logs for a road surface.-- afinehowdoyoudo, Jul 01 2009 /your local Jeep dealer/.. didn't they go belly-up in the big crash of '08?-- afinehowdoyoudo, Jul 01 2009 [iron_horse], why do think you can't go fishing on a horse? (link)-- normzone, Jul 01 2009 [normzone].. its in the lyrics of a song! damn if I can find a linky tho'-- afinehowdoyoudo, Jul 01 2009 In my search I did see several references to laws against fishing from horseback. I'll help you look for those lyrics.
(edit) No luck, just more law references.-- normzone, Jul 01 2009 Lol, I am gonna die form laughing, we MUST have a half-baked convention sometime.
Anyhow, I think stumps ARE a problem. I don't think it is as easy as we all think to cut trees flush to the ground, you can't get a chainsaw into the earth etc s it will wresk the chain, and lots of tress are not simply sitting on nice perfectly flat ground. In any case, even a , say, 3" stump, when combined with uneven and especially SOFT ground can easily get hung up on the undercarriage of most off-road vehicles.
See, what I want is not a vehicle entirely dedicated to this purpose - I want to be able to transfrom my normal 4X4 on the spot.
I read somewhere long a go the idea of building a wilderness road on top of stumps, so that idea occurred to me, but I was hoping for an easier solution.
The area that I am going to appeals to me becasue it is isolated, beautiful, cheap, property taxes are less that $200 per year, and becasue it is so remote everyone build whatever the heck they want without bothering with building permits, inspections. A perfrect place to try out a host of half-baked ideas. I am especially interested in using wind-power to try out a gravity-based energy storage system.-- marquisdenet, Jul 02 2009 Though I've never actually tried it, horse fishing sounds a bit dangerous. All the horses I have rode do not like small things around their feet. They have trouble seeing down there, I think.
That's why they do a horse water dance, sort of thing, while crossing streams and brooks. Or at least that is why I think they do.
(marquis, I think you need a ranch hand ;-)-- blissmiss, Jul 02 2009 [marquis] - do you have any net access from out there in the sticks? I'm wondering if it's possible to do a virtual half-con...-- lurch, Jul 02 2009 //horse fishing//I wonder if you could saddle up a manatee-- FlyingToaster, Jul 02 2009 If you build it (a road), they (building inspectors) will come.
I never did understand that song about how 'you can't go fishing from a horse, from a horse..' . Maybe 'can't' meant 'you're not allowed to' ?-- afinehowdoyoudo, Jul 02 2009 </bitter cynicism> Its a long way into town to get gas for the 4x4 or hardware for projects <bc/>-- afinehowdoyoudo, Jul 02 2009 Which is why you need to make a Fischer-Tropsch biomass converter on the property and generate your own. Like you needed one other reason!-- bungston, Jul 02 2009 seriously people if three inches of stump is projecting from the ground all the way around then you can cut more off. I'm not suggesting this is a good way to fell trees but when you are making a passable trail you get the saw resting on the ground and use the case as a pivot. If you are making a semi-permanent road on the other hand you might leave 3'-4' of "stump" for winching or dozering the base of the tree out of the ground but that would be yer more advanced road clearing technique. Many backwoods builders make temporary access ways, dozer in their sawmill and, once the homestead is complete, abandon the road and use narrower atv and snowmobile trails.-- WcW, Jul 02 2009 Cannot see the problem of flush-cutting trees either, but if there is such, the spoke-wheels would be a rather bad solution.
But on the bright side, i was much amused about the notion of buying a wilderness-spot without ATV access and then building an ATV access.
How about buying a spot with ATV access, doing renovations, then planting trees in the road?-- loonquawl, Jul 06 2009 random, halfbakery