I've got another question I can't seem to find an answer to. I think that maybe I just don't know the proper words to find the info, but the concept gave me an idea anyway.

Question:
How is the cohesiveness of a vortex ring affected if expelled from a spinning launcher?
The torus ring would not only be inverting but also rotating either clockwise or counter.

I'm sure somebody must have played around with the physics of this but after wading through as much about vortexes as I can take in, I can't find that particular study.

Anyyhoo... I am wondering if massive, (and I mean massive), spinning vortex rings launched ground-wards from the air might not have the effect of containing wildfires early by trapping them within tornados, which we could direct the movements of, with low pressure systems of a continual aerial bombardment.

I doubt that the heat of the fire would allow the vortex rings to reach ground before their energy is dissipated, but a directed series of these vortices from an angle at a single target could deliver not only CO2 but extremely cold CO2 very close to the base of a wildfire interface.

Once a section of fire begins to tornado it will generate its own rotational energy causing air to be pulled in from all sides rather than being allowed to move with the direction if the wind. This would trap embers and exploding trees within a spinning column chimney which should push heated cinders and ash far enough into the atmosphere that they would cool before reaching ground again.
-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 19 2015

Torid Pulse vortex scuba launcher https://vimeo.com/83271708
very cool [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 20 2015]

Vortex interplay https://www.youtube...watch?v=DhZpFnI4TgE
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 20 2015]

Vortex ballet https://www.youtube...watch?v=4bhuFFZzJMQ
beauty eh? [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 20 2015]

Vortexplosion https://www.youtube...watch?v=XJk8ijAUCiI
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 20 2015]

Scroll down to see vortex ring with a swirl. http://serve.me.nus.edu.sg/limtt/
I guess that is what you meant. I found a sub link in the exploding vortex link. There is some really cool stuff on that page. What the hell is flying hot wire? [Ling, Dec 21 2015]

Erm... smoke with rings? https://youtu.be/qe6NnHFyoZI
Goto 1:47 [Ling, Dec 21 2015]

Toroidal and poloidal https://en.wikipedi...roidal_and_poloidal
definition of coordinate system [notexactly, Dec 21 2015]

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about... big-ass torus rings. https://www.youtube...watch?v=_GL3xAaIcvI
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 31 2015]

1. Don't hot fires already tornado by themselves? Pulling air in from all sides and expelling combustion products upwards is a good way to make the fire hotter. Which is not necessarily bad if you are fighting it.

2. Already I have trouble understanding what holds a vortex together - why something spinning around an axis but not attached to the axis does not fly off at a tangent. If you spun the vortex generator would you not create a vortex that expanded in diameter as it left the generator?
-- bungston, Dec 19 2015


Fire [+]

//push heated cinders and ash far enough into the atmosphere that they would cool before reaching ground again.// Nope, it would carry burning branches and "cinders" consisting of rapidly burning logs. The fire would spread more rapidly.
-- Voice, Dec 19 2015


//Don't hot fires already tornado by themselves?//

Yes, I just want to trap it there.
Take all of that energy, spin it, and don't let it leave.

//why something spinning around an axis but not attached to the axis does not fly off at a tangent. If you spun the vortex generator would you not create a vortex that expanded in diameter as it left the generator?//

In my head I don't see a spinning/inverting vortex ring expanding unless external energy is added to the system. I see it as more cohesive and directional due to rifling. I'll post some of the cooler links I've found.

//try this in a lab to see if a powerful toroid would do any disrupting//

How do I find that? It has to have been looked into.

//Nope, it would carry burning branches and "cinders" consisting of rapidly burning logs. The fire would spread more rapidly.//

Yes, but the combustables would super-heat and be trapped within a system that on a large scale would look like a magnetic field with the expelled cinders being re-inhaled at the base of the toroidal inferno... if the vortex could be kept cohesive.

Just like stuffing a Djini back into a bottle.
-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 20 2015


If you put too much energy into the vortex (rotating too quickly) it immediately disintegrates. I think there is a balance between ambient pressure and the total pressure developed by the rarefaction and the centripetal force.

So, if there was an additional rotation, then it might need to be compensated for by adjusting the balance.

Edit: Oooo...see link....
-- Ling, Dec 21 2015


Awesome links! Poloidal eh? Who knew?
-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 21 2015



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