I'm not sure this is the right category for Ideas like this one and the "Nunchaku Walking Stick" idea ... but since the other one was here, that's why I'm posting this one here.
According to things I've read, the actual best close-quarters combat weapon (before guns) is the quarterstaff. About 2 meters long (sometimes a little less), they are often used as walking sticks in many tales. However, the modern trend to be less obvious in the carrying-about of weapons has lead to significant dis-use of quarterstaffs. So, Idea:
Modern walking sticks are often only about 1 meter long. Sometimes they carry a concealed sword. But since the sword is not the best weapon to carry around, it seems to me to be more sensible for the stick to be a wood veneer over a metal core (perhaps titanium; a titanium tube could weigh about as much as solid wood, and be lots tougher), of which part of the core can telescope at need (and lock). Now you have the best weapon!-- Vernon, Jul 22 2015 Quarterstaff http://ejmas.com/jw...t_docherty_0501.htmFYI [Vernon, Jul 22 2015] Titanium http://www.totalmat...iumProperties&LN=ENFYI [Vernon, Jul 22 2015] Walking sticks https://www.google....vDuxgIVAfaACh1YfQVuFYI. Some of these have built-in shock absorbers and are partially collapsable, and thus resemble the thing in this Idea, but I'm fairly sure their total lengths are generally about 1 meter, maybe a little more. [Vernon, Jul 22 2015] Extending Baton https://en.wikipedi...29#Expandable_batonWKTE [8th of 7, Jul 22 2015] Reverse implementation: umbrella disguised as Samurai sword. http://www.cambridg...3-detail/story.html [MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 22 2015] Molecular Biologist's Collapsible Quarterstaff http://i923.photobu...aff_zpsnanipymd.jpg [MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 22 2015] That's a knife https://www.youtube...watch?v=POJtaO2xB_oAs mentioned in an annotation. [Vernon, Jul 22 2015] Daffy Robin Hood http://www.b99.tv/video/robin-hood-daffy/As requested in an annotation. [Vernon, Jul 22 2015] A gun that could have doubled as a walking stick data:image/jpeg;bas...TKwbvF+xUVwdFFLH//ZRelated to an annotation. [Vernon, Jul 23 2015] Samurai sword handle umbrella http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/b625/So popular it's out of stock. [21 Quest, Jul 24 2015] Like <link> ?-- 8th of 7, Jul 22 2015 This would completely bewilderfuse the East Anglian police, who already have their hands full dealing with Samurai umbrellas <link>.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 22 2015 [8th] I would argue that an expandable baton does not begin to have the striking power of a quarter staff, nor the reach. Most designs also cannot be used in a thrusting attack, which a staff can.
However, I would also argue that neither does any practical design for a collapsible quarterstaff. A telescoping design is either significantly heavier or significantly weaker than the equivalent straight staff (depending on how much the joints overlap). In addition, the lack of a single smooth outer surface is going to degrade the flexibility of a standard staff, since it wouldn't be feasible to slide the hands along the length in order to shift grips.
As far as whether the quarter staff is actually the best weapon, that's harder to say. It certainly has it's advantages, but is weak in formation, is outranged by the pike or lance, and it's advantages over most other pole arms is questionable (a quarter staff and a spear are essentially the same thing, except the spear can do more damage with one particular move). It definitely has both a reach and striking power advantage over most swords, but once again, a well trained swordsman who can dodge a strike or two is going to do a lot more damage when they reply.-- MechE, Jul 22 2015 The trick is locate the mass at the ends of the staff.
Consider a unit that in the resting state consists of a tube 1000mm long, 30mm o/d, 25mm i.d., made of titanium, and cross-hatched or knurled.
Over each end of the tube are slipped two sleeves, each 600mm long, 30.5mm i.d and 35mm o.d, also fabricated in titanium.
The sleeves have a steel endcap and a 24.5mm solid steel rod running down from the cap which engages with the 25mm bore of the centre tube.
Catches are fitted internally to retain the sleeves securely in the extended position, or loosely in the closed position, permitting rapid deployment.
Closed, the device is 1.2m long and has an an attractive woodgrain finish.
Extended, the device is 1.8m long with a heavy weight at each end and a knurled grip in the centre.
We might make one of these.-- 8th of 7, Jul 22 2015 Any thoughts as regard quarterstaves should open with the required watching of Daffy Duck as Robin Hood, acting out the famous staff battle with Friar Tuck. "Ho! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin!"
Youtube cannot be used at this computer I am on. I hope someone will link up this clip.-- bungston, Jul 22 2015 Knurling? Steel endcaps? Tubes? How very... industrial.
MaxCo. has recently introduced its range of quadruple-helix extending quarterstaffs for the safety-conscious molecular biologist.
Each quarterstaff consists of two main parts (which, for want of a better term and because we like consecutive consonants, we can call eighthstaffs). Each eighthstaff, in turn, is a double helix consisting of two square-section rods, twining around each other for one turn. The two rods composing the eighthstaff terminate in a heavy bronze knob.
The two complete eighthstaffs telescope into eachother helically so that, when closed, they form a quadruple helix. A rather cunning latch mechanism locks them in place when used as a walking stick, and allows them to extwine to their full 2m length with a twist.
MaxCo. is proud to make these highly exclusive objects available to all.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 22 2015 [8th of 7], I had noted that most walking sticks have something of a heavy knob at one end. Instead of brass (heavier but softer than steel) I would choose titanium- nitride coated tungsten, for that brassy/gold look, but with significantly greater mass and toughness. At the other end I had considered something like a switchblade, to be extended when the stick is telescoped to staff status. It should be weight-balanced with the other end, of course, and therefore also should be tungsten (coating not necessary). I do agree with you in the sense that there should only be two sizes of tube, for the telescoping action.-- Vernon, Jul 22 2015 //other end I had considered something like a switchblade//
If it's below 3 inches, it's technically a legal knife. Just a knife with a very stout handle.-- bs0u0155, Jul 22 2015 So basically this is like those folding walking-sticks that old ladies carry in their handbags?-- pocmloc, Jul 22 2015 I have furnished an illustration of the MaxCo. Molecular Biologist's Collapsible Quarterstaff (third link).
My next project is to arrange quarters for the staff of a collapsible molecular biologist.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 22 2015 are the staff collapsible, or just the Molecular Biologist?-- bs0u0155, Jul 22 2015 Mostly both.
Incidentally, I believe that "eighthstaff" is right up there with "catchphrase" for consecutive consonants. Given that some keyboard instruments can be "quarterstrung", I may consider producing an "eighthstrung" harpsichord simply to up the ante.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 22 2015 [bs0u0155], the three-inch legality thing may depend on the locale. See the link (although now I'm not talking about a switchblade type).-- Vernon, Jul 22 2015 I will drown out the sound of your puny eighthstrung harpsichord by hammering one of those strengthstruck fairground machines.-- pocmloc, Jul 22 2015 // See the link// [Vernon], are you developing a sense of ... humour??-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 22 2015 //strengthstruck// is an awesome word.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 22 2015 Interim report
Experiments undertaken with immediately available materials have determined the following;
1. The basic design of a tube plus two sleeves is sound.
2. The mechanism for the retention of the sleeves in their extended position needs to be extremely robust, reliably preventing movement in either longtitudinal direction.
3. Fabrication of a functional prototype will present few problems.
4. The diameter can be reduced while retaining effectiveness due to the superior stregth of metal over wood.
5. The device is very likely to be highly effective in inflicting severe, painful and disabling injuries on a target.
6. The device is definitely highly effective in inflicting severe, painful and disabling injuries on an incautious user.-- 8th of 7, Jul 23 2015 [MaxwellBuchanan], the humorous link simply shows someone walking around (New York City, as it happens) with a knife that has a larger blade than 3 inches. So, the rule mentioned by [bs0u0155] may depend on the locale, as I previously stated.
[8th of 7], smaller tubes are more likely to bend. Although titanium is nice in that it resists staying bent. Still, there is an "ideal" cylinder diameter for hand- grasping, and I'm sure that some wooden quarterstaffs were either too thick or too thin. How titanium tubes of the best diameter will compare, weight-wise to wood, remains to be seen. What can you tell us about that? Thanks in advance!-- Vernon, Jul 23 2015 [MechE], if the telescoped stick can lock into that mode (perhaps as simply as many old-fashioned umbrellas lock), and if there are only two sizes of tubing in the stick, then sliding the hands along the staff need not be more uncomfortable than sliding along an old-fashioned telescoping car antenna. I can see that a non-sudden and thus more comfortable change-of-diameter at the "joint" would show up as a revealing ring around the walking stick, when it is not in staff mode. That could be a good thing in terms of a warning....-- Vernon, Jul 23 2015 [bigs], you should post that.
// What can you tell us about that? //
Oooooh, lots, but then we'd have to kill you ....
Interestingly, there is no apparent difference in handling between a solid rod of uniform density, and a perfectly stiff tube of the same diameter with an identical mass at each end, provided the overall mass, length and diameter of both items is the same.-- 8th of 7, Jul 23 2015 It doesn't feel that way; and the math confirms it.
Any such system can be reduced to an idealised point mass positioned on a lever arm, giving a moment. It doesn't matter if the mass(es) is/are distributed along the lever arm as long as the sum of the moments is the same.
Of course this presumes no air resistance, a frictionless pivot, and all the other useful things that are found in physics textbooks but which are dissapointingly unavailable in what is jokingly referred to as the "real world" ...
An interesting interactive museum exhibit would be two externally identical cylinders on a table. One is a solid rod, the other a tube with weighted ends. Visitors have to pick up and handle the cylinders and guess which is which.-- 8th of 7, Jul 23 2015 //Any such system can be reduced to an idealised point mass positioned on a lever arm//
Yes, but the mass of a continuous rod is idealized as a point mass 2/3rds of the way from the pivot point and the end of the staff. The design you suggested is represented by a point mass at the end of the staff. This will produce a different rotational inertia.
I=mr^2
Given a pivot point at the middle of the staff, the continuous staff is mL^2/6. The 6 is accounting for the staff being divided in half, so a factor of 1/2 in the length, and then squared for 1/4. Also embedded in it is the relatively lower contribution of mass closer to the center, a factor of 1/3. This gives 1/12, which is then multiplied by 2 to account for both ends.
The mass at the end of the staff is ML^2/2, only the staff being divided in half and then having two ends.
For a pivot point at one end of the staff, the continuous staff reduces to ML^2/3 (the three is, again the lower effect of mass closer to the center). The end massed staff reduces to ML^2/2 (the two, in this case is the fact that half of the mass is at the pivot point, and thus has no contribution to rotational inertia).
As a result, in both cases, the end massed staff will take more effort to swing and to recover from a swing. On the other hand, it should strike a little bit harder as a result.-- MechE, Jul 23 2015 Sword people also talk about "centre of percussion". Is that just rotational inertia as well?-- pocmloc, Jul 23 2015 It's a function of rotational inertia, but not only rotational inertia. The center of percussion is the point, for a given pivot point, where an impact to the object is equally distributed between rotational and linear forces.
In the case of swinging a weapon, this would mean that the impact produces the least shock at the hands (and probably the lowest risk of breaking the weapon).-- MechE, Jul 23 2015 This allergic overreaction to anything that may be dangerous is the greatest danger to freedom that ever existed.-- Voice, Jul 23 2015 Yes but does it change, depending if it is a tube with weights at 1/3 & 2/3 points, or a solid rod?-- pocmloc, Jul 23 2015 Yes, but...
It is possible to put the weight at a position where the center of percussion (and/or the moment of inertia) would be the same for both items for a given pivot point. But one of the things that makes a staff such an effective weapon is that it is usable at multiple pivot points (primarily the end and midpoint, but others are used). And it is not possible to construct the weighted version such that either the rotational inertia or the center of percussion would be consistent for both, let alone any intermediate points.-- MechE, Jul 23 2015 Actually, wouldn't a gun be better?-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 23 2015 I'm sure that guns concealed in walking sticks are common enough.-- pocmloc, Jul 23 2015 Cool. I played around with designing a staff which housed or could become many different martial arts weapons... didn't telescope though.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jul 24 2015 As a timid suggestion may I add that a small concealed cannister of compressed gas may allow rapid deployment with the push of a button.-- AusCan531, Jul 24 2015 What happens to the walking stick handle? A staff with no handle is really hard to use as a walking aid unless you have a loop to put your wrist through to aid retention.-- oneoffdave, Jul 24 2015 "And with that, M'Lud, we submit that the case of the Crown versus Mr. Tindale is proven beyond reasonable doubt ..."
// loop to put your wrist through //
With a bit of thoughtful design, that could be used as a handy garotte.-- 8th of 7, Jul 24 2015 Does it come with a tennis ball for the end?-- RayfordSteele, Jul 24 2015 [oneoffdave], a walking stick can work with a knob-like handle on the end, instead of a lever-like handle. In this Idea the knob can become more effective at bashing something, when at the end of a quarterstaff.-- Vernon, Jul 24 2015 //You can’t get the staff these days//
There's a pill for that.-- 21 Quest, Jul 24 2015 By the way, that katana-handled umbrella was probably ordered from ThinkGeek. Will post a link shortly.-- 21 Quest, Jul 24 2015 random, halfbakery