So you're a refugee now, eh? Simply obtain a UN citizenship card, as per [FlyingToaster]'s clever plan, and live aboard the UN CitizenShip until events calm down in your home country.

While aboard the UN CitizenShip, you will be required to act in accordance with the stated values of the United Nations. You will attend classes and have a mentor. While you are recuperating from the stress of having fled under fire, you will be fed, gain medical attention, and get the benefits of education in English and in your langue maternelle. You will work aboard the boat, helping yourself and fellow passengers.

You may disembark at any UN country, under visa stipulations, and work according to 'green card'-type rules. You will pay taxes to the UN as your 'federation'.

If your country never returns to a state of peace, or at least calm enough to go to the pub for lunch without getting blown up, you may remain a citizen of the UN indefinitely.

Surely the UN CitizenShip can remain afloat longer (literally, and in terms of fiscal management) than the human smugglers' rubber dingys.
-- Sgt Teacup, Apr 28 2018

Where power really comes from. https://www.google....:&spf=1525298011586
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 02 2018]

Is this a BAKED record or what?! https://www.busines...canes-2019-4?nojs=1
Solves for climate-change dislocation; which one of you is Bjarke Ingels? [Sgt Teacup, Apr 08 2019, last modified Apr 16 2019]

Note: vessel 'Free gift' to UN = tax write-off for bazillionaires https://edition.cnn...ise-ship/index.html
Hoity-toitys upgrade other vehicles every year, right? [Sgt Teacup, Feb 27 2024]

You're gonna need a bigger boat.
-- pertinax, Apr 29 2018


Immigration offices around the world will be saying "Nooo- ah".

I'm in condition today.
-- not_morrison_rm, Apr 29 2018


Why not a whole fleet?
-- notexactly, May 02 2018


I don't get it. There's only one thing you can get almost one hundred percent of adults to agree on;

The future of "our" 'children' ...matters.
[Yes] or [No]
[___]

It follows by extension then that, if just asked, those same people would also be in agreement with the statement;

I would like my great grandchildren to have the opportunity to be Citizens of Earth and accorded the same basic human rights and laws across the board.
[Yes] or [No]
[___]
Set a date.
Compliance comes at the cost of 1st world countries giving the UN some teeth...

...and soon as a blink, this generation's been safely interred and this whole third world bullshit starts sorting itself out by the second generation of Earthers fixing the mess our great grandpappys made.

...

If a "Vast" majority of human beings can agree to those two statements then the only other question in my mind becomes...

How many con-mens' tongues needs to be ripped out first to keep these talking heads from stopping it?...

[link]
-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 02 2018


I would like my great grandchildren to have the opportunity to be Citizens of Earth and accorded the same basic human rights and laws across the board.
[Yes] or [No]
[NO]

If you mean "do I want there to be no divisions between countries, and hence no citizenship", then no. Vast parts of the world are fucked up quite spectacularly. The benefit to my great grandchildren of being able to set up home in Somalia (or whatever the equivalent of Somalia is, in 50 year's time) will be very small; the benefit to Somalis of being able to set up home in the UK (or even the USA) will be very great.

Sure, I suppose I'd like Somalia to be a nicer place to live, but there will always be what your president so eloquently described as "shithole countries" and, until such time as they fill in their respective shitholes, I like the idea of national boundaries. I like the idea of individuals being able to succeed by their own efforts and, equally, I like the idea of countries being able succeed by their own efforts.

If you start getting all egalitarian, next thing you know you're living in the sort of world where one man can invent the world's greatest amphibious screw-driven vehicle, and yet he can't protect his own invention and make a pile of money, and that would be terrible.
-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 02 2018


//every non-western country they contact//

Fixed it for you.
-- Skewed, May 02 2018


Unfix it : Canada has hundreds of third-country refugees walking across our border from the US, illegally, each day.
-- FlyingToaster, May 02 2018


Good point, consider it unfixed.
-- Skewed, May 03 2018


I don't have a President.
I barely have a Prime Minister...

//I like the idea of national boundaries. I like the idea of individuals being able to succeed by their own efforts and, equally, I like the idea of countries being able succeed by their own efforts./

There is no "equally".

"If you start getting all egalitarian, next thing you know you're living in the sort of world where one man can invent the world's greatest amphibious screw-driven vehicle, and yet he can't protect his own invention and make a pile of money, and that would be terrible.//

Very droll Wilma... very droll.
-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 03 2018


So, what you're saying is that the people should be able to move around freely, until all countries are at the same level of shittiness? That's not an unreasonable position - and it's sort of what's currently done within the EU (and, on a smaller scale, within countries).

It's just not a position that I agree with. I think England is a better place to live than Somalia, in part, because we have smarter people here and have worked harder over the last millennium or so. I suspect that's also true of the US (or even Canada).
-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 03 2018


Maybe.

What I see happening is that this new generation of Earthers would become educated since it would be part of the basic human rights package, and educated people have fewer children.
So, what I'm saying is that the people should be able to move around freely, until children of all countries are at the same level of opportunity with the same human rights, at which point we'd all be smarter harder working people. Unless you think that geographical location determines intelligence level.
-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 03 2018


//people should be able to move around freely, until children of all countries are at the same level of opportunity//

That's very noble. You can expect the standard of living in the currently rich countries to fall, and that of poor countries to rise, until they're roughly the same. Thereafter, both will resume the upward trend.

My preference, though, is for countries that have lots of resources yet are still royally fucked up to get their house in order before they're allowed to play with the grownups.

On the subject of intelligence, it is true that there is a very wide range in national average IQs. However, this correlates broadly with availability of food, clean water and medicines. People in Japan are smarter than those in sub-Saharan Africa because they've had better healthcare and nutrition for a few generations. The brain is the most resource-hungry organ in the body, and is impacted by childhood deprivation far more than height or muscularity. The effects also persist for a few generations, because epigenetics are very good at preparing unborn children for the conditions endured by their parents.
-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 03 2018


//because epigenetics [...]//

Hang on - doesn't this militate against your own position, [MB]? I mean, doesn't it indicate that shitty countries make stupid people, whereas your stated position is that it's the other way around?

(I mean, obviously, it could work *both* ways around, but if we admit that then we'll pass up an opportunity for some good self-righteous shouting all round, so best not to mention it).
-- pertinax, May 03 2018


//doesn't it indicate that shitty countries make stupid people// Yes

// whereas your stated position is that it's the other way around?// No. I didn't say my position was the other way around.

Bottom line: all countries everywhere were once full of sick, malnourished people with consequently low IQs.

By some combination of luck, historical accident, inherent abilities or cunning, some countries have pulled themselves out of that pit faster and further than others. Average IQs have risen spectacularly in Europe, the USA and other developed areas, over the last century or two.

Countries that are still in the pit can pull themselves out of it, and indeed are doing so. And we can and should help them by a combination of education and financial support. I just disagree with the idea that we should invite them all over to our place. Probably if I were a nicer person, I would think differently; many people here seem to assume I'm nice just because I can sometimes be funny, which is wrong.
-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 03 2018


/You may disembark at any UN country, under visa stipulations, and work according to 'green card'-type rules/ No country is obliged to allow or accept voyagers from the UN CitizenShip.

The idea of the Ship is to prevent folks from barging across borders, with little to no accountability upon arrival. Barging in tends to result in 1) death, for unsuccessful bargers, or 2) un(der)employed persons who drain the system (without acculturation there is less impetus to give back), causing resentment among the citizens who see their taxes unfairly applied (less to themselves after all their hard work, more to the newcomers).

/we can and should help them by a combination of education and financial support/ Education (acculturation), nourishment (to feed the brain and nervous system) and medical care aboard Ship helps people 'pull themselves up by the bootstraps', fast-tracking them toward generational evolutionary success, in [Max]'s parlance.

'Bad guys' who simply cannot or will not get their sh*t together onboard (criminals, completely insane, those who are a 'drain on the system' as per current deportation rules in most countries) can be dropped off at port in their home country, or airlifted from the CitizenShip in the case of landlocked nations.
-- Sgt Teacup, May 03 2018


//luck, historical accident, inherent abilities or cunning//

Well ... one important element in that combination was the opportunity to use other countries as a malthusian safety valve. It has been argued, for example, that in the mid nineteenth century the native Americans probably had better health than the poor, tired huddled masses who were about to displace them - and therefore, presumably, higher IQs (albeit lower technology). The reason was basically that they had a lot more land per person.

The implication, then, is that if countries that are now poor are going to improve themselves, we will need to give them a bit of a malthusian safety valve in their turn.
-- pertinax, May 03 2018


// It has been argued// Ah, so it's not known, then?
-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 03 2018


"Before we pow-wow, Red Cloud, would you mind taking part in this simple IQ test? ... "
-- pertinax, May 04 2018


// Unfix it : Canada has hundreds of third-country refugees walking across our border from the US, illegally, each day. //

While that is a crisis for the refugees (if they cross in winter, anyway), it's not really a crisis for Canada. We have plenty of space and need to increase our population.
-- notexactly, May 04 2018


True'nuff : there's probably some Yanks making a fortune picking up all the iPhones they're leaving on the road so they don't look rich when they come over.
-- FlyingToaster, May 04 2018


//We have plenty of space and need to increase our population.//

Perhaps you could ask each of them to bring a barrowload of topsoil when they cross. That way, as the ice retreats, there'll be arable land to feed the extra people.
-- pertinax, May 04 2018


//The idea of the Ship is to prevent folks from barging across borders, with little to no accountability upon arrival. Barging in tends to result in 1) death, for unsuccessful bargers, or 2)...//

In light of events* at the Texas border, as just one example, perhaps it's time for the SS UN CitizenShip idea to gain traction, slide down the slipway and set sail.

*effects of underwater razor wire on the human migrant's body
-- Sgt Teacup, Feb 27 2024



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