My idea is to build a miniaturized phalanx antimissile defense system to be used against RPGs and other small arms missiles. This device could be implemented on helicopters, ground vehicles and possibly even carried by infantry and set up in predetermined operating locations. The system could use satellites in space, surveillance drones and aircraft, and an onboard high-resolution short-range radar/infrared/ heat and other detection systems to accurately fire multiple low caliber rounds at a high rate of fire at the oncoming projectile, or potentially in the future it could use a laser beam or other methods of interfering with the missile. I believe it would be really nifty if you could get the missile to reverse itself and go back to where it was fired. This system could save the lives of many while fighting in Iraq. I believe there has got to be someway to defend helicopters and people from optically aimed rockets and other weapons, this is why this invention idea would be useful.
-- JoeLounsbury, Nov 09 2003

Metal Storm http://www.metalstorm.com
[theircompetitor, Oct 04 2004]

Trophy active protection system http://en.wikipedia...e_protection_system
This idea, baked in the real world, pretty much as described. [Custardguts, Jan 18 2013]

Shamless Self Promotion CIWS-Safe
A way to minimize the accidental overshoot-problem. [MechE, Jan 18 2013]

Croissant for your intentions, fishbone for your implementation. Were these phalanx cannons mounted on every humvee, Bradley and Abrams in Iraq, they would pose a greater danger to our own forces than the RPGs do.

Phalanx cannons work well on ships against anti-ship missiles because because the missiles can be tracked at long range, giving the crew sufficient time for threat assessment and response planning.

On a smaller scale, RPG attacks take perhaps one second between the launch of the projectile and impact. This is not sufficient time to ensure that the field of fire for the phalanx cannon is clear of friendly forces. Furthermore, multiple cannons would be required to cover each possible direction of attack, dramatically increasing the risk of unwanted casualties.

As an alternative, perhaps we could train more skeet shooters in the army, and equip them with large-gauge shotguns that fire depleted uranium buckshot.
-- Guncrazy, Nov 09 2003


A computer is more accurate at shooting then a human, that idea with the skeet shooters isnt bad, but with a computer fire control system it may be good. you may only need one or two rounds to take out an RPG with the depleted uranium buckshot and it wouldnt be dangerous if you only shot one or 2 rounds in the direction, the soldiers could carry transponders on them so if there are any in the way the computer would compensate for that and calculate whether it is viable to shoot at the missle and possibly injuring one soldier to save 10 in a vehicle, or if there are 20 soldiers in the way then it wont shoot because less would be killed if the RPG actually hits.
-- JoeLounsbury, Nov 09 2003


Another system that could be implimented is a computer controled sniper rifle. It would use a thermal imaging system at night or a dual camera 3D image recognition system to shoot the RPG shooter and snipe out the shooter of the RPG so then the threat is eliminated, a grenade could also be fired at the exact location of the shooter of the RPG if he is hiding behind a barracade, as well the new pre set time delayed fuse grenades that can blow up over a baracade to take out the people underneath the mid air explosion could also be implemented.
-- JoeLounsbury, Nov 09 2003


Ever see a Phalanx fire? Do you know what goes into making one work? Do you realize you're indiscriminately throwing bullets around, 90%* of which will not hit their intended target?

Back when I was in the Navy, the carrier I was on was conducting exercises with a few other ships. One of the exercises was tracking and killing a drone aircraft being towed by a plane. The drone passed between two of the ships in the exercise and one ship's Phalanx took out the other ship's bridge, killing three people. Phalanx is cool, but it ain't too bright.

*Made-up statistic. Replace with "many" if you like.
-- phoenix, Nov 09 2003


Interesting. I have been thinking about the same idea recently and discovered halfbakery as a result of my search for information. So Joe, I like it. The problems are solvable. Computers today are about a million times (made up statistic) more powerful than they were in 1977 when Phalanx was introduced (isn't the internet great for getting these little statistical gems). It should be possible to track friendlies continuously so that when a threat does appear, the response can be nearly instantaneous. A shotgun concept - short range - would also minimize the potential for collateral damage while maximizing the possiblity of a hit. I think the system could be designed to aim and fire in a second by using a high speed radar and computer to identify the unique ballistic signature of an RPG. The need is great.
-- saltshaker, Jan 16 2004


What is the range of an RPG? How fast does it go? How long does it take to physically aim the guns at the missile?

Seems a bit unlikely to work, but I could be wrong.
-- RobertKidney, Jan 17 2004


This is one of the things Metal Storm is hoping to do. Dangerous or no this probably will be baked within the next ten years if it's at all feasable.
-- Madcat, Jan 17 2004


What is metal storm?
-- RobertKidney, Jan 17 2004


web link added
-- theircompetitor, Jan 17 2004


Broken link, homes. Isn't the Metal Storm that array of barrels that projects a wall of lead at things? Has some rate of fire in the realm of 1 million RPM or something?

<edit> Oh yeah - that thing rocks! I remember that thing now.
-- Letsbuildafort, Jan 17 2004


fixed and yes
-- theircompetitor, Jan 17 2004


I knew I heard it before, made use of in John Ringo's posleen books. Didn't realise they were real. Heh.

They want to use THAT to shoot down incoming RPGs? Thats gotta be a friendly fire accident waiting to happen.
-- RobertKidney, Jan 17 2004


I was thinking along the same lines as [morrison rm] when I got to the end of this idea. I envision an antirocket device that shoots compressed balls full of helium. On exiting the gun they inflate to a neutral buoyancy and hang in the air. The antiRPG gun thus leaves a cloud of slow moving rubber balls in its wake, through which the RPG must plow.

These slow moving rubber balls would be printed with moral exhortations in the local language, with the expectation that they would be collected and used for toys after falling to earth.
-- bungston, Oct 15 2006


Better to just kill the RPG gunner.
-- augusta, Oct 15 2006


electronic countermeasures anyone?
-- Stork, Dec 16 2006


See link to Israeli trophy active protection system. Pretty much as described by [Joe] in 2003. It's the successor to Iron Hand, which was well into development in 2003, but probably wasn't WKTE.

Yes, friendly fire is a big risk with these systems, but if you read the wiki article and do more research, you'll see that the threat differentiation is a key element, and it won't fire on a missile that isn't going to hit, although it does give the onboard fire controller a new target...

Real starwars stuff, and being battle tested (and seeming quite successful) right now.
-- Custardguts, Jan 18 2013


This is an excellent Idea. [+]

I see one reason why it might not have been developed already. On a helicopter it will most likely be shooting downwards. Friendly fire might be an issue there. The bullet may miss the intended target and hit a non-target around or beyond the target. A non-target may pass in front of the target and be hit with a bullet aimed at the target. The bullet may pass through the intended target and hit a non-target beyond it, so called "overpenetration"

Try an electromagnetic pulse or a high pressure shock wave of sorts. Just a thought
-- Brian the Painter, Jan 18 2013


MechE, Brilliant link [+]
-- Brian the Painter, Jan 19 2013



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