The Halo unit is a bolt on addition to any water tanker or water carrying road train to make these vehicles fire suppressing tanks.
The device has piping mechanisms to draw, pressurize the water and and spray the water in protective bubble around the tanker. I'm imagining a series of circular pipe frames periodic fitted with nozzles spraying water in all directions creating a cacooning wet environment. The more presure the greater the sancutuary but the shorter it will last. Fuel for the pump can be drawn out of tanker's fuel tank through a specialised fuel cap.
These tankers can run rescue lines and set up protective zones in support of actual appliances. If the tankers are 4WD, a convoy could make inroads into drivable sections of a forest fire and set up stragetic positions for crews to carry out their valiant work.
The only problem is, like it always is, sources of water.-- wjt, Dec 27 2019 EATR (robot) https://en.m.wikipe...mous_Tactical_RobotWikipedia page [sninctown, Dec 30 2019] Spiderbot (old videogame for Commodore 64) https://youtu.be/XZSObFVfI5EYoutube link. Kind of intense [sninctown, Dec 30 2019] Forest fire power generation Forest_20fire_20power_20generationPrior Art, [sninc] ... [8th of 7, Dec 30 2019] Crablogger https://thunderbird...com/wiki/CrabloggerMore Prior Art ... [8th of 7, Dec 30 2019] M-69 https://en.wikipedi...wiki/M69_incendiaryWe love the smell of napalm ... well, pretty much any time of the day or night, actually. [8th of 7, Dec 30 2019] Pulaski https://en.wikipedi...wiki/Pulaski_(tool)Every home should have one. [8th of 7, Dec 31 2019] Fu-Go https://en.wikipedi.../Fu-Go_balloon_bombLaunch balloons and start fires with them. [8th of 7, Dec 31 2019] The Hexapod. https://www.youtube...watch?v=46Uod3QHsuM [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 31 2019] Hitchhiker's Guide on voting https://www.goodrea...mocracy-you-see-you"...because the wrong lizard might get in." [sninctown, Jan 03 2020] Hitchhiker's Guide on presidents https://www.goodrea...y-much-a-figurehead"...job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it." [sninctown, Jan 03 2020] A firefighter I know mentioned that fighting a large fire can rapidly consume as much water as is available. A water truck is better than nothing, but a lake is preferred. Also, a fire may consume enough oxygen to choke and stall out a firetruck engine attempting to drive through the blaze.-- sninctown, Dec 30 2019 True the battles have to be picked that can be won. Maybe Batteries or electrolysis?-- wjt, Dec 30 2019 I'd propose a wood-fired fire truck. Actually, less of a truck and more of a Spiderbot. Specifically, the "EATR" robot (fueled by internal combustion of biomass) on an articulated-leg chassis (like a spider) with a wood chipper maw at one end. For creation of fire breaks, current practice is a team of people to fell trees and rake the ground, which is often insufficient to stop the fire. What I propose resembles a giant mechanical Shelob, which when unleashed would clear a wide path in its dread progress, articulated mandibles uprooting trees and feeding all organic matter into its terrible jaws, as its abdomen churns with internal energies and glows with the red heat of combustion, leaving in its wake a 40 foot wide swath of churned earth and bare rock.-- sninctown, Dec 30 2019 Ahem.
<link>
We did consider having the unit towed by a wood-fired steam traction engine, but given its vast size a conventional turbo-electric drive is much more practical.
Unlike the EATR mentioned, our design is specifically intended to pre-empt forest fires, not just to scavenge.-- 8th of 7, Dec 30 2019 Shirley the whole forest fire problem can be solved by having more of them, more often. Just get aircraft to drop incendiaries every couple of square miles every few years, burning out any small patches of forest that are overdue for a fire. As with food and murder, "little and often" is best.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 30 2019 Yes, that's what the USFS do. Cute little incendiary pellets, ping-pong balls filled with a mix of isopropanol and potassium permanganate, self-igniting, cheap, nonpolluting, and very effective at igniting underbrush.
Not nearly as much fun as a vic of B-52's loaded up to max with M-69's, tho ...
<link>-- 8th of 7, Dec 30 2019 //a mix of isopropanol and potassium permanganate, self- igniting//
Whoa there. Surely that mixture would self-ignite as soon as it was made?-- MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 30 2019 There's a diaphragm; the mechanism that ejects them from the aircraft has a pin that punctures it just as it exits the chute. The pellet lands and almost immediately ignites.
Acceptably unsafe for a civilian application; no detonants, no white phosphorus or alkali metals, no primary explosives.-- 8th of 7, Dec 30 2019 //a pin that punctures it just as it exits the chute// Ah. That explains it. For a moment there I thought you'd come up with something clever.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 30 2019 The level of innovation in the Forest Service is commensurate with the challenges they face, and rarely goes beyond items more sophisticated than, for example, the Pulaski <link> - which is, however, magnificently "fit for purpose".
The air dropped incendiary pellets probably originated with NASA, although the Japanese made a significant contribution to the concept in the 1940's <link>.-- 8th of 7, Dec 31 2019 // Shirley the whole forest fire problem can be solved by having more of them, more often. //
That is a very good point.I am old enough to remember when we used to do controlled burns at times of the year when the trees could be kept from igniting while destroying the underbrush.In fire season the dead limbs and needles can be several feet thick in places and may as well be comprised of matchsticks for how fast it can all go up. Between that and fire-breaks wild fires were far more manageable.
First the tourists began complaining about hazy air quality.Then the Eco activists determined that several feet of matchsticks piled under bone-dry forests are a good thing......and now we just can't seem to put the dang things out the way we used to.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 31 2019 //First the tourists began complaining about hazy air quality. Then the Eco activists determined that several feet of matchsticks piled under bone-dry forests are a good thing...//
Crucially, not doing things is cheaper than doing things. If you can not do things and explain how you're a good environmentalist at the same time you're on to a political winner. Under the surface, there have been grumblings about forestry mismanagement in California, but all local responsibility has now been absolved in favor of the universal boogy man of global warming.-- bs0u0155, Dec 31 2019 Logically, the steps should be:
1. Move all human activity away from forested regions.
2. Leave the forests completely alone and let nature determine when, where and how much they burn.
What's wrong with that ?-- 8th of 7, Dec 31 2019 // 1. Move all human activity away from forested regions.2. Leave the forests completely alone and let nature determine when, where and how much they burn.What's wrong with that ?//
1. We refuse to stabilize our numbers.2. See # 1.
Nature, if left alone, would have roving packs of wolves and solitary predators which reshape their own ecological niches by controlling prey activity, rampant beaver construction damming and creating maximized wetland areas, and roaming herds of herbivores as far as the eye can see keeping the grasslands from desertification.
Way fewer devastating wild fires by working with nature rather than logging, burning, and paving it......but I wasn't alive to be consulted then, and now that I am... well, it's like really hard to be heard whilst screaming into seven billion lungs worth of wind-storm.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 31 2019 // We refuse to stabilize our numbers //
We suggest some sort of cull - discriminating, or indeed indiscriminate - is clearly indicated.
There are a number of possible mechanisms.-- 8th of 7, Dec 31 2019 Or... ...or we work on a gradual de-populization while sporing into space using all of the tech which the general public has been purposely kept at least fifty years behind the times of...
Some will need to stay behind to help clean up the damage of course. A cooperative stable five billion or so should do nicely.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 31 2019 // A cooperative stable five billion or so should do nicely. //
Indeed. Perhaps if they were organised into a single efficient Collective consciousness by some sort of process of absorbtion, that would be even better.
The sooner you start, the better.-- 8th of 7, Dec 31 2019 Seeds planted take time and nurturing.Just waiting to reap what's already been sown. Forging a plowshare from a sword was the hard part.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 31 2019 // tech which the general public has been purposely kept at least fifty years behind the times of //
Interesting theory. It'd pain me to learn that my engineering work had been made ineffective on purpose by suppressing useful technology.
Strangely enough, I have been unable to find any suppressed technology on the usual archive sites. I have however found doctored photographs, a lot of descriptions of half-baked prototypes that don't work, and eager statements by people who are also on record saying verifiably wrong things. It's odd that I have not found a single suppressed technology. Sure, there are expensive-to-build technologies, and there seem to be trade-secret technogies, but these are differences of degree not of kind.
One big one here would be an inertial-suppression device. The leading suppressed-tech theory seems to be that strong electromagnetic fields negate mass, so making a superconducting metal sphere and setting up standing waves (both electrical and mechanical) in it makes it and the surroundings have less mass. I see no actual evidence to support this though.
Another big one would be AI. However I don't see chip manufacturers suppressing technology, instead the goal is to keep up with Moore's Law. The sense I get is that whoever owns it all would love to deploy AI to outnumber humans, but the tech isn't ready yet.
Another big one would be magic/psi/esp or something like that. Here again it sounds like there's nothing definitive although many subjective experiences seem real to the guy having the visions.
As much as I'd love there to be a secret space program with inertial- suppressed near-light-speed ships, with helpful AI and psychic space marines onboard heading for the Korpulu sector, this appears not to be reality.-- sninctown, Dec 31 2019 Believing that any government has the ability to keep anything secret for any length of time goes against all experience, and is a sure sign of feeble-mindedness.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 31 2019 An excellent example is nuclear proliferation.
In 1945, the USA wanted to keep "atomic secrets" unto itself, which worked for a few years; but they could only conceal the details, not the principles. In fact, the possibilities of fission as an energy source had already been openly discussed in newspapers across the world prior to 1939.
Altho the USSR obtained valuable information by espionage, other nations obtained the technology by simple applied engineering, although Britain had a head start, having kicked off the whole development process with Tube Alloys.
The same uncomfortable fact is that if you have a supply of yellow cake, 1940's level engineering capability, some reasonably clever people, and enough money, you can join the Nuclear Club*.
Any useful technology (poison gas, bioweapons, nukes) will eventually be deployed. Once it is known to be practical, methodology will be deduced from first principles by others. Even if it isn't, advances in adjacent fields will reveal a "shadow" in information (like the DDT/Sarin confusion between the Allies and the Axis). Since it is possible to deduce a great deal about something by the shape of the space it occupies, secrecy is never permanent.
*defined as "Everywhere except Monaco, Liechtenstein, Andorra and the Seychelles"-- 8th of 7, Dec 31 2019 If 8th and Max agree that there's no significant suppressed tech, then it must be true. Good.-- sninctown, Jan 01 2020 Heck, the UK government couldn't even keep the lid on its development of postcode-specific viruses for more than six months.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 01 2020 Hang on. That was general knowledge, wasn't it?-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 01 2020 Suppression by the public's ability to obfuscate is different from not being allowed in the public domain in the first place. Governments still have secrets that are not allowed public.-- wjt, Jan 01 2020 //public has been purposely kept at least fifty years behind the times of //
////Interesting theory. It'd pain me to learn that my engineering work had been made ineffective on purpose by suppressing useful technology.////
Indeed.Check in with The-Donalds' uncle and those who raided Nikola's allotted hotel room shortly after his death.
//As much as I'd love there to be a secret space program with inertial- suppressed near-light-speed ships, with helpful AI and psychic space marines onboard heading for the Korpulu sector, this appears not to be reality.//
Appearances are almost always deceiving and none of the shit we are currently using as power sources would pass an engineers' scrutiny if said engineer were given their druthers.It's a bit of a joke really. The inherent inefficiencies which we, (I mean you), are forced to work around.
// Believing that any government has the ability to keep anything secret for any length of time goes against all experience, and is a sure sign of feeble-mindedness. //
Boom! There it is. The Godwin's law of debunkery.No human beings could keep and maintain such secrets therefore no such secrets exist.
I completely agree.Not that no such secrets exist, but that no group of human beings would be capable of keeping and enforcing the suppression of such secrets.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jan 01 2020 ... for any significant period of time.
It's possible to conceal information about human actions for extended periods; it's not possible to effectively conceal information about science or technology for more than a few years, much as governments desire that.
By their nature, governments are almost incapable of acting preemptively except on the most critical threats, and even then they struggle. The "conspiracy" theory of history is in a way correct, but instead of the conspiracy preceding events, it follows them; a desperate attempt to somehow cover up the appalling cockup they have made (again).
In the end, it always fails. The object of those in power is to stave off disclosure until they are out of power, retired, or best of all for them*, dead.
*and indeed everyone else.-- 8th of 7, Jan 01 2020 Governments, seems plausible. But smart and ambitious people sometimes join secret societies instead of working for a government salary. However, this is an unfalsifiable theory. The secret society drinks from Russell's Teapot as far as I know.-- sninctown, Jan 01 2020 //this is an unfalsifiable theory// It's falsifiable by the application of a small amount of intelligence.
Buchanan's Third Law (it may not be the third; I lose count): there is no conspiracy theory so idiotic that nobody will believe it. In fact, it's generally the case that the number of believers increase with the ludicrosity of the conspiracy theory, as does their vehemence in defending it.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 01 2020 Yes, conspiracy theories are easy arguments to straw-man that's for sure.
Can we agree on this statement?;"Everything is rigged in favor of the one percent who hold the most wealth."
I will make the assumption that we can agree on that rather than wait for your reply since it is patently obvious to everyone on the planet.Our reliance on fossil fuels is a sham perpetuated by wealthy middle easterners with very little left of their once tropical countries to barter on the world market therefore gas and oil have been forced onto the world at large in favor of much more efficient and elegant solutions just so that status quo of distribution if wealth is maintained.Capitalist countries are basically for sale to the highest bidder and so our governments are able to be manipulated by lining pockets and extortion.
The internal combustion engine would be lucky to win a high school science project if developed today because of how monumentally inefficient it is.
In the 20's Tesla had figured out how to amplify the vibrations of a simple crystal AM radio to charge the batteries of a car which worked from a single antenna and a radio tower.
Westinghouse, Edison and a bunch of other POS engineered the bullshit we see around us today in order to squeeze every last drop of profit to be had from the uneducated shills which were the general public of the day and it has been perpetuated ever since both economically and scholastically with the dumbing-down of North America.
No conspiracies my ass...I think the charge of "Oath Breaker" should be introduced to the criminal justice system on both a political and public scale for those who abuse positions of trust to further themselves at the expense of others.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jan 01 2020 //In the 20's Tesla had figured out how to amplify the vibrations of a simple crystal AM radio to charge the batteries of a car which worked from a single antenna and a radio tower.// Alas, no. Given a high- power radio transmitter, you can pick up a tiny, tiny fraction of that power and use it. The only way to pick up all the power is to make your car spherical and build it around the transmitter which, alas, isn't very useful. It's tantamount to trying to run a solar- powered car from an electric lightbulb.
Your overarching conspiracy theory relies on the embarrassingly stupid assumption that every competent or innovative engineer is somehow inducted into a Secret Circle of international conspiracists, and persuaded to give up the fame, glory and money that he or she could make from their invention.
The thing about most conspiracy theories is not just that they're wrong, it's that the nutjobs haven't even made the effort to make them interestingly wrong, by thinking them through. Please try harder! Oh, and happy new year.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 01 2020 Happy New Year to you too [MB]!
Do you deny that there is evidence that Tesla had figured out how to amplify AM radio waves to charge batteries which ran an electric car and wireless transmission of electricity in the 20's, and that Westinghouse shut him the fuck down?
That's no theory. That's a fact. Our education systems and modern infrastructure stem directly from that fuckery which has since been perpetuated by those in authority with the help of those who willingly and quite vocally turn a blind eye while belittling those who do not.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jan 01 2020 The punishment for Oath Breaking should involve prison time... and not the club-med prison time the pasty faced white collar crime asswipes usually see either.
General population... just like their constituents.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jan 01 2020 // Tesla had figured out how to amplify AM radio waves to charge batteries which ran an electric car and wireless transmission of electricity in the 20's, and that Westinghouse shut him the fuck down? //
It is possible that <italics> at the time <italics/> Westinghouse did that for commercial reasons.
However... such technology has clear military applications. If any nation had posessed it during WW2, it would have been unhestitatingly deployed, just as the'secret' cavity magnetron, VT-fused artillery shells, Enigma/Purple/JN25 decoding, acoustic torpedoes and ultimately fission weapons were. Lots of service personnel would have seen the equipment even if they didn't grasp the physics; an electric aircraft with infinite range could not be kept secret indefinitely, and ironcally it's the politicians who are most likely to blab for transient popular gain.
Secrecy is like a party balloon- it only takes the tiniest leak and pretty soon everything gets out.-- 8th of 7, Jan 02 2020 // Secrecy is like a party balloon- it only takes the tiniest leak and pretty soon everything gets out. //
As far as that statement pertains to humans I do not doubt it...So what does that leave us with?...
It leaves us with the internal combustion engine as a primary power source and Donald-fucking-Trump as president of the most, (publically endorsed), militarily armed country on the planet.That's what it amounts to.
I for one have had it with the con-men I see running the show.
Why am I anonymously voting, (with absolutely no way to ensure that my vote goes where I said it went), for individuals who are for sale rather than voting un-anonymously on policy?
Can anyone in their right mind please answer me that question?
As far as I can tell a persons vote literally only entitles them to bitch about the consequences of the lying assholes they have no way of knowing if they actually elected or not.
Seriously?
Am I the only sane person on this planet?
I'm okay with that and am leaning more and more towards that determination every friggin day of my life, and dealing with the fact that it may very well be so...
I just need to know one way or the other is all.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jan 02 2020 That knowledge would... determine certain things.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jan 02 2020 This gets into advocacy territory.
// voting un-anonymously // interesting concept. the secret ballot dates back to the French Revolution. which is more of a risk: reprisals against non-anonymous voters or fraud against anonymous voters? i still lean toward the secret ballot plus exit polls, but there are other systems.
// voting directly on policy // interesting but recent California history suggests that people would pass bills that contradict each other as well as pass bills that bankrupt the State. so in practice this was mostly baked and ran into issues.
// voting for individuals who are on sale // yeah... a leading conspiracy-theory opinion is that Epstein didn't kill himself, but i'm not sure how useful it is to discuss this. if there is some secret ruling cabal, they're very well-hidden. by definition, politicians are more popular with voters than non-politicians. there's still plenty of tea in the stores so it's not all bad.-- sninctown, Jan 02 2020 to supply water to the Halo tanker, I would propose a ballistic water cannon. this would be a conventional fire hose and nozzle with a few additions: 1. high-pressure high-power pump to create the high pressure and flow rate needed. 2. a nozzle resembling rocket nozzle material, with a porous surface and air pumped in through small holes to create a boundary layer, such that there is a layer of air between the water and the nozzle wherever the water is moving at high velocity. 3. a thin plastic sleeve which is continuously extruded around the plume of water, streamlining it to enable laminar flow over a longer distance. think a giant spool of Saran Wrap just above the nozzle orifice. the spray of water pulls the Saran Wrap to unroll and wrap and seal around the far side of the water spray. the Saran Wrap material is unspooled at a high rate to match the water velocity. ideally this would be a biodegrateable material. the biodegradeable Saran Wrap would stretch to accommodate the water stream's diameter increase as its velocity decreased (the opposite of why a stream of water from a faucet gets smaller as it gets closer to the sink -- smaller area at higher speeds, larger at slower speeds, for constant flow rate). 4. a heavily reinforced "umbrella" attached on top of the Halo Tanker to redirect the incoming plume of ballistic water into a "halo" around the vehicle. I have not done any calculations regarding the feasibility of this. I also like the idea of dropping water from orbit to fight forest fires, but that concept would have even more issues.-- sninctown, Jan 02 2020 //Do you deny that there is evidence that Tesla had figured out how to amplify AM radio waves to charge batteries which ran an electric car //
Yes, I do deny it. If I'm wrong, find me proof that he ever did such a thing successfully.
Yes, in theory you can charge batteries via AM radio waves. After all, you can power a crystal radio from AM waves alone. However, you will capture - at most - a tiny tiny fraction of the broadcast power. So, using AM radio waves to charge a car battery is not really feasible, and certainly not efficient. A crystal set with a very long antenna captures a few *microwatts* of power from a strong signal.
Tesla had some very good ideas, but also a few fruitloopy ones. His Westinghouse power "transmitter" was based on a misunderstanding, and it's now known that it couldn't work except at a very low efficiency (akin to the AM radio/crystal set problem). He did power some lights, but I can power a fluorescent tube (ie, it will glow dimly) just by going and standing underneath a high-voltage cable - the amount of power collected is pitifully small.
You've got an open mind, [2fries], but having an open mind makes you vulnerable to people dumping trash in it.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 02 2020 // the internal combustion engine as a primary power source //
Primary mobile power source.
Don't confuse generation with transmission. Even if Nikolai had cracked wireless transmission of energy at high efficiency (it would need to be the same order of magnitude as conventional cables) there is still no free lunch.
Most compact, reliable energy sources are Carnot heat engines; even nuclear plants use steam turbines. Seebeck and photoelectric generators are still heat engines, and of low efficiency compared to their rivals.
Let's say you have a nice, shiny personal drone from Nikolai-Buchanan Corp. that uses wireless power and can stay aloft until you die of starvation or dehydration (or anoxia if you fly high enough). That doesn't solve the issue of where the energy comes from. Tesla never claimed that Wardencliffe was in any sense an over-unity machine.
Even if every device on your planet could be powered by a network of Tesla Towers plonked down every 2000km or so, each tower would still need to be ringed by a herd of Terawatt-range fusion generators to feed it - unless he had also cracked Zero-point energy.-- 8th of 7, Jan 02 2020 Thanks [sinctown], would lowering the temperature of the water, or some other physical manipulation, help with molecular orientation of the laminar flow? therefore avoiding the biodegradable Saran Wrap mechanism.-- wjt, Jan 03 2020 well, one solution would be to freeze the water before launch. a ballistic hailstorm would get big aerodynamic chunks of water to the fire, but it might be prudent to keep the Halo tanker well clear of the hail impact area.-- sninctown, Jan 03 2020 A below zero water object would probably travel through flame, if velocity was too frantic. Frozen water/surfactant bubbles?-- wjt, Jan 03 2020 Sorry [wjt], went off on a bit of a tangent there.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jan 03 2020 //a ballistic hailstorm// I like that idea very, very much indeed.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 03 2020 Indeed; an application that is simply crying out for the reckless and inadvisable deployment of an extremely large trebuchet ... or several thereof ...-- 8th of 7, Jan 03 2020 I'm sure a long-range ice-cannon could be developed. I've got some of Gerald Bull's notes and sketches somewhere...-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 03 2020 <Looks round furtively, slides unabelled Blu-Ray disk concealed in folded newspaper to [MB]/>-- 8th of 7, Jan 03 2020 I've mentioned before that that sort of video doesn't really do it for me. I've never understood what people see in herring.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 03 2020 Just give it back to Sturton. Use as much force as is necessary. Or more, if you feel so inclined. In fact, you might as well just go ahead and use excessive force just for the sake of it.
// That was general knowledge, wasn't it? //
Oh yes, like the latest public touchscreens - particularly the ones at transport hubs - being configured to acquire fingerprints from users ...-- 8th of 7, Jan 03 2020 I always carry a spare finger to use on public touchscreens.-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 03 2020 // Am I the only sane person on this planet? //
No.-- BunsenHoneydew, Feb 02 2020 // a ballistic hailstorm //
[sninctown] this really deserves its own post - it's rather ingenious.-- BunsenHoneydew, Feb 02 2020 // Am I the only sane person on this planet? //
// No. //
That is true, yet notably misleading. To be the only sane person on the planet, there must be exactly one sane person. Since there are no sane persons on* the planet, it is not possible for anyone to be "the only sane person".
*we are not currently on your planet, but in geostationary orbit, concealed behind one of your larger communications satellites. This saves on running the Cube's cloaking device, which uses a lot of energy and incidentally interferes with our Paranoia Brane Ray which we focus on various halfbakers now and again to make them twitch in an amusing way.-- 8th of 7, Feb 02 2020 My reply neither requires that there be any sane persons, nor that the questioner be amongst them, whatever their number.-- BunsenHoneydew, Feb 04 2020 Perhaps it's using water that is the problem? Small fire-extinguishers come in many types; could large scale dry powder be more effective, at least for ground- level suppression? Or dry-ice, for that matter.-- neutrinos_shadow, Feb 04 2020 random, halfbakery