I hate loyalty cards (rant rant) I want a Disloyalty Card so that I can collect rewards for NOT shopping at the outlets listed, and NOT buying certain nasty products.
Who will provide those rewards? Rivals of the dreaded loyalty cards who will club together to form a membership scheme called the "Out-Traders".
I also want rewards for NOT doing other things that seem to get rewarded.
A Non-driver Licence, would be one.
A No Jam on My Toast would be another.
Don't want to start a list, but I have numerous others, which could all be loaded unto a data base, and the information encoded unto one card.
"We Welcome Your Disloyalty"-- xenzag, Dec 08 2006 Music Maestro http://en.wikipedia...aestro_(debit_card) [calum, Dec 08 2006] Loyalty Cards http://en.wikipedia...iki/Loyalty_program [calum, Dec 14 2006] (?) The Anti-Football League http://antifootballleague.org/An Australian site that may interest fans of this idea. [disbomber, Dec 15 2006] Baked in London... http://www.wedgecard.co.uk/Pretty much what you describe, launched Dec 1st 2006. Still retains my [+]. [theleopard, Aug 13 2007] 200,000 wrenches then nada. https://www.youtube...watch?v=sHIktR-3Ci4Where America doesn't shop? Sears [popbottle, Jul 29 2014] Ohh, I am *so* with this one - it's about time there was some properly anti-corporation 'brands' that we could ally ourselves to in the same way we're supposed to herd ourselves into corporately defined demographically segregated consumer profiles. I say no! I am not lovin' anything at all - far from it, it's shite. I do not care what's Inside. Because we're all worth more than that. And maybe, just maybe it doesn't have anything to do with cosmetics. The real thing turns out to be the largest propaganda campaign ever inflicted on mankind, and why should I want to wear underwear labelled with someone else's name?
21Q - you wouldn't have to follow people around to enforce this - it's a passionate, emotional, self-respect thing.-- zen_tom, Dec 08 2006 Call it the Denis Leary Card.-- DrBob, Dec 08 2006 I agree with [zen_tom]! I passionatly hate Wal-Mart and peoples' names on any of my clothes. When I bought my car, I tore the dealership's name off the back of it! I'm not a driving ad.-- xandram, Dec 08 2006 21Q - it's not just a boycott, it's a sponsored boycott, backed by those companies who might have good reason to see the downfall (or at the least, mild irritation) of overly branded corporate entities. Kind of an anti-corporate collective, where members choose to support a range of non-aggressive businesses by boycotting invasive ones.
There have been movements towards organising consumers to boycott immoral or environmentally unsound businesses - but never a properly organised, sponsored movement against ones that just really piss us off.-- zen_tom, Dec 08 2006 [plish] //make my wife do my shopping// - does she get rewarded if she complies or punished if she declines?-- xenzag, Dec 08 2006 //Bad economics. [-]//
I think what the idea is getting at (if you will excuse my interpretation [xenzag]), is that there will be a loyalty card, for all the little guys, that's *marketed* as a dis-loyalty card, against the big corporations.
You get points for purchasing your goods from companies that don't poison the airwaves with their insidious jingles and poisonous marketing. And by purchasing from these companies, you are, in effect *not* buying from all those ones we've all had enough of.
It's perfectly viable.-- zen_tom, Dec 08 2006 [plish] - can you make your wife do my shopping too?-- xenzag, Dec 08 2006 That's how I read it too [zen_tom], and that's how I bun it [+]. Hooray for dropping off the marketeers' map!-- DocBrown, Dec 08 2006 //it's a passionate, emotional, self-respect thing.//
Then why the hell do you need to be rewarded for it?
I don't look for rewards for the things I am passionate about, the best reward is the way I feel after I purchase from a mom and pop store or eat at the local gas staion. The reward is knowing you made the right choice.
I won't lie to you, I am foced to shop at wal mart on those nights when my daughter is sick and they are the only place open at 11pm or when other stores simply don't carry what I need.-- Chefboyrbored, Dec 08 2006 [21], I beg to differ. Firstly, it is not inevitable that smaller corporations grow to become larger ones. Secondly, the complain is not against large corporations per se, but against aggressive and invasive marketing, poor ethical and/or environmental records and poorly-concealed desire to milk every last penny/cent out of the consumer if they have to launch a missile into the Sea of Tranquility thus etching their corporate logo on the Moon to do it.Avoiding purchasing from corporations that exhibit these trends is a small exercise in personal responsibility that, if replicated across a sufficient number of people, can bring about real change for the better, both in giving companies that practice business in a more satisfactory manner a better chance of survival and in impacting the megacorps in their only sensitive spot - the balance sheet, thus forcing them to reconsider their methods.-- DocBrown, Dec 08 2006 I have to say I agree with [phlish] and [21Q] on this one. All you're saying is "if a company is successful we won't support it."
What happens when one of the company's on the "disloyalty" list becomes popular and they start raking in loads of money? To they get kicked off to the boycott list?
"Don't you dare be successful and advertise your products, or we'll boycott you too!!!"
Bone.-- kdmurray, Dec 08 2006 I think we need to talk rewards here, as, unless we put some flesh on this idea, it will decline into a 'let's all'.
So what do you get? You buy something from participating shops (or indeed any shop that are not *un-participating*, if you get me) and you get points? Or what? Cash? Coupons?
Which of the millions of shops gives out the reward? Or is their a central pot that the scheme generates from taking a small % from all the little shops' profits to give back to the consumer?-- theleopard, Dec 08 2006 //All you're saying is "if a company is successful we won't support it."//[kdmurray] that is not all that's being said. Check my anno. 2 up from yours. [leopard] I'll guess that you accrue points for spending at an accredited alternative which are then redeemable at other disloyal outlets.-- DocBrown, Dec 08 2006 //that is not all that's being said// In looking at the original idea, it doesn't really specify one way or the other. [xenzag] has put forward a general idea which is being interpreted one way in the ano's, I'm simply offering another interpretation.-- kdmurray, Dec 08 2006 //Wal-Mart is a public service// Wal-Mart is a corporation, run for the benefit of its shareholders.
Perhaps it's only really happening in the UK, and even then perhaps only in urban areas, but cash is being phased out in favour of the Maestro (or Switch, as I will forever insist on calling it) debit card system. I should think that some sort of agreement between the operator of the proposed system and Maestro, coupled with an appropriate Data Protection waiver would be able to provide the provider (ooh) with a significant amount - possibly even a majority amount - of information on the transactional history and habits of a disgruntled city-dweller, enough to be able to justify the awarding of a bonus.-- calum, Dec 08 2006 The availability of reasonable quality products at low prices is a positive thing*, for those with the wherewithal, but that does not make it a public service, which was my point. The BBC is a public service, for example. Wal-Mart is not.
* Though, as with all positive things, there are downsides.-- calum, Dec 08 2006 FYI, New York State has a non-driver's license - an ID card for people without driver's licenses.-- DrCurry, Dec 08 2006 //Yeah, it's called a state-issued I.D., but you can't drive with it so what's the point being proposed here?/
//I also want rewards for NOT doing other things that seem to get rewarded. A Non-driver Licence, would be one. //
21Q: NOT DRIVING was the point.-- Chefboyrbored, Dec 08 2006 surprise surprise... not everyone lives in the USA.
An ID does not certifiy that you don't drive, but a Non-Driver Licence does.-- xenzag, Dec 08 2006 xenzag, don't be silly! of course everybody lives in the usa, how else could they use the internets? (Al Gore Spelling)-- Chefboyrbored, Dec 08 2006 //how else could they use the internets?// - cans with string ? (by the way Internet invented by an English man)-- xenzag, Dec 08 2006 The disloyalty card could have a signed pledge stating that if you are seen shopping in any of these stores or if any of your credit card or bank card statements indicate that you have shopped there, your card will be revoked.-- Jscotty, Dec 08 2006 //Vote for it because you think it's funny, not because you think it's a good idea.// .....or else phlish will send his wife out to buy women's shoes for you.-- xenzag, Dec 11 2006 //I have no idea where you got that interpretation//
Elementary, my dear [phlish]. Say for example, you were going to purchase a washing machine. If you were to buy it from one of the non-loyal vendors, it would be reasonable to assume that you hadn't simultaneously purchased it from one of the boycotted ones. I guess, the root cause of our difference is that I don't think that piece of information needs to be mentioned explicitly, while it would appear that you do. Or potentially, you might be in the market for two washing machines.
In other words, purchasing an item from one location precludes your ability to simultaneously purchase that particular item from anywhere else. Maintenance of the non-loyalty agreement, while implicit, is still a fact, both logically, and pragmatically - at least when viewed within the scope of an individual transaction.-- zen_tom, Dec 11 2006 Likewise, [21Quest], a loyalty card has no way of determining whether a customer is *really* being loyal. How might Sears (whoever they are) or Tescos, or Fortanm & Masons determine whether I only shop at their stores? They don't!
Similarly, the disloyalty card rewards people who don't shop at given places, at least for as long as they shop somewhere else.
Yes, the two things are exactly the same - they are both loyalty cards - the difference here is the viewpoint from which the concept of loyalty cards is being viewed.
Normally, you would only get a loyalty card from a firm you felt loyal to. One with whom's brand you might identify.
But what if you hate the whole branding practice altogether?
This is for people who hate, rather those who love, particular brands.
If I, and millions of others can't stand Coca-Cola and their insidious advertising campaigns, might there be a market for all the non-Coca-Cola people to get together and issue a card that promises me a discount whenever I buy their cola products?
I might be persuaded to purchase a Pepsico loyalty card - but I hate them too.
Much better for all the non massive cola people to get together around an "anti-brand" that says "We know you don't care about any of our corporate brands, and you do, in fact, find the whole branding concept to be an ugly, painted abberation, forced upon us by behemoth zaibatsus in order for them to raise profit margins on their industrially manufactured products. In recognition of your hatred for this dehumanising practice, we offer to sell you our goods, which are just as well made and arguably of a higher quality (but none of which display any of our garish and ugly corporate identifiers) and induce you to do so by humbly offering you a discount."-- zen_tom, Dec 11 2006 //How else do minors or those who have their license revoked get identified?//
In other parts of the world, such as the UK you have the right to anonymity and do not have to identify yourself. Identity cards have been campaigned against vehemently by many in the UK and wwe currently do not have to carry ID.
I like the idea of avoiding companies, not because then are sucessful but when they become corporate conglomerate cartels which wield more power and handle more money than many governments. Being sizable is okay as long as they are ethical too, as long as they care about their suppliers and their customers. I would also prefer to buy from a large but family-owned department store than a big, multi-store-owning corporate behemoth.
Of course, loyalty cards aren't about loyalty, they are about profiling and targetted advertising and their offerings are rarely no-strings-attached. The only point to them is to save large corpaorations money compared to buying the same data from Credit Card companies which for years had a monopoly in supplying this market data and hence could charge huge sums for it. It has been said that some credit-card providers have made more from the selling of this data than from transactions themselves.
In the UK we have a cross-retailer company called Nectar that is set up to profile people in this way. Avoid it at all costs. Using a nectar card will get you targetted spam to your door, mobile and email address. Governments also use this data to profile the population. In todays day and age, be careful who you give information to.
Just think for a moment about how much fo the western world Visa controls.-- webfishrune, Dec 11 2006 I struggle to think of a contect in which asking someone if they are a lawyer could possibly even have the faintest whiff of offence attached.
I think that it is fairly clear that what we have here is a card with similarities to a run of the mill loyalty card: 1. It will, in its name, contain the string of letters "loyalty card"; 2. It will likely take the form of a card, which will be shaped like a card and made out of materials from which cards are made (but not card); and 3. It will involve the collection of information relating to the cardholder's shopping activities.
And around about here the similarity ends. Because what will happen with the disloyalty card is this. The card holder will allow the information of their purchase history to be aggregated by the card operator and, if the aggregated data suggests - that's suggests - that the cardholder is not buying the blacklisted products and services, then there will be rewards. Ice cream, new socks, anal sex, puppies, whatever the card operators deem attractive to the prospective card holders.
You'll note, though, that I didn't say that the data "shows" or "proves" that the card holder did not purchase the services. I didn't say that because, as has been rightly pointed out, that's unpossible. The card holder could suddenly decide that they want to purchase a the pancreas of a Cambodian orphan, or shop at the Gap, and, to do so, will withdraw cash from their account and then carry on a largely untraceable morally-suspect transaction. But actually stopping people from shopping at places forever and for all time coming is not what the idea is about and, in order for it to work, it does not have to achieve that. What it has to achieve is a net negative impact on the blacklisted businesses and, while it is theoretically possible that every single cardholder is going to secretly make these unethical cash transactions just so that they can game the Right On Disloyalty Possee, it is also theoretically possible that my mum was given an OBE for attacking the King of Spain with a fishslice. I would hazard that if the data collected relating to the majority of card holders suggests that they are not shopping at these locations, the number of people gaming the system will still be small enough to ensure that there is a net negative effect on the income of these naughty businesses.
The people who will use this card will likely be made up of those right on types who already *don't* shop at these places and, if the rewards are properly targeted - subscription to the Independent, tofu - then it will not be appealing to those looking to game the system.-- calum, Dec 11 2006 the turd way......-- xenzag, Dec 14 2006 //What interval of not buying a product would justify said rewards?// Well, that would be for the scheme operator to decide, based on economic considerations. I suppose disloyalty to a specific nastybrand would depend on the frequency the average consumer purchases their goods and services. One might reasonably expect that not shopping at Wal-Mart for one month would be sufficient evidence of disloyalty to the Wal-Mart brand, whereas if there was a particularly unethical manufacturer of washing machines, they are a sufficiently high order product that a period of more than a year would likely be appropriate.
//If not from purchases, then from what economic horn O' plenty would these rewards be drawn?// If we are to take the product-specific approach I just outlined, then it makes sense that the rewards would be similarly treated. The economic horn o'plenty here would be distributed across the participating, ethical competitors of the various nastybrands and these businesses, expecting a slight upsurge (or just good publicity) due to their particpation in the scheme, would fund the rewards system, either with cash or in kind, depending on what fits best.
//And what, since buying does not lead to rewards, would posses one to present such a card when making a purchase anywhere?// The idea of the card is not to prevent people from shopping, but to prevent them from shopping *at particular places*. Therefore, when the ethical shopper goes to his ethical supermarket, he will - provided that the simultaneous search of his Maestro (for example) data, which would be tied to his loyalty card, shows that he has been a right-on, tofu-munching ethical shopper - be able to claim his rewards at the ethical point of purchase. The reward offered is the incentive to present the card. If the customer does not present the card at all, ever, then the operators of the scheme will never know if the cardholder is shopping in an ethical or unethical manner and therefore would not be able to offer rewards. As with other loyalty cards, failure to use the card means failure to collect rewards.
I'm not, with all of this, saying that the scheme would work or, indeed, even be a good idea. What I am doing, is trying to think of ways to make it work, in the spirit of Positive Halfbaking.-- calum, Dec 14 2006 I think it's unworkable. Loyalty cards are just a way to keep track of demographics. I don't use them, they give me the creeps. The only thing you can get from not patronizing certain establishments is a warm glow. So what do you need a disloyalty card for?-- esperance, Dec 14 2006 Free tofu. Think about it.-- calum, Dec 14 2006 You should have to get a loyalty card before you get the disloyalty card, so the latter can be more of an act of betrayal.
Also, it should have a barcode scanner, so you can scan all the things in the targeted shop or of the targeted brand you're considering buying, then after you leave get a list of alternatives you can buy, complaints about the product, or photos, cartoons and stories which are disrespectful to the product.-- caspian, Dec 14 2006 You really want to piss off Walmart? Wander around their shop with a shopping trolley, filling it with everything that doesn't take your fancy. When it's really full, take it to the check out, let the poor check-out girl (or boy) run it all through the check-out, then present your disloyalty card and walk out.
The disloyalty cards need to be disposable, of course - a simple printed card the size and shape of a credit card.
Personally I don't have the time, but it sounds (almost) like fun.-- Cosh i Pi, Aug 14 2007 I get an annual disloyalty discount from my insurers: It goes something like this.
1) I get a letter from my insurer saying that my insurance is due renewal and this is what the new premium will be. 2) I phone around getting better quotes from other insurers, half of which seem to be owned by the same conglomerate as my current insurer. 3) I phone my current insurer and tell them the competing quotes. They send me to a specialist department, who apply a "special loyalty discount", that beats the best quote by a little bit.
Now, they call it a loyalty discount, but if I did not consider being disloyal, they would never have applied it. Sound like a disloyalty discount to me.-- TheLightsAreOnBut, Aug 14 2007 // half of which seem to be owned by the same conglomerate as my current insurer // The other half most probably are too, but the camouflage is more effective...-- Cosh i Pi, Aug 14 2007 Sp.: "accommodation"-- MaxwellBuchanan, Jul 29 2014 Dislike me on Facebook, Please.-- popbottle, Mar 18 2015 I am no longer loyal to my disloyalty card.-- xenzag, Mar 18 2015 random, halfbakery