In the name of promoting smarter prostitutes, we should promote a university degree before getting a licence to screw others (Much more enjoyable for the customers compared to say a lawyer's degree!).
Why? If there is a degree in farming, then why not this too? Because being a good prostitute most likely requires a practical skill set as well a theoretical one. And that best transferred though a university where professors can explain it best. Thus helping future students GROW their ASSET many times over!!!!
Benefits are plenty!
1. Trafficking and explotations is reduced drastically, because students are taught their rights.
2. They become better workers because they are taught by veterans who knows all the INs and OUTs of the industry.
3. They become well ROUNDED in all forms of life from the physical and the mental. Especially if they study varied subjects like economics, maths, and philosophy. Making them much more interesting than a dead fish in bed. (Imagine that! A philosophical prostitute who can hold a very nice conversation!)
4. They will be able to make Friends With Benefits of being from all walks of life and studies, helping students to grow their networking skills (Many jobs are not in job listings). In addition it would make prostitutes better appreciated as a legitimate profession with it's own challenges and hurdles.
Being part of the oldest profession in the world, along with accounts... it is about time they join the prestige of academic life, and bring an extra "Dimensions" and "Girth" to the range and selections of studies available for new students.-- mofosyne, Aug 17 2014 Selling Sex: Experience advocacy and research on sex work in Canada http://www.ubcpress...sp?BookID=299173904 [rcarty, Aug 17 2014] WHO says http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/condoms/en/ [4and20, Aug 17 2014] Idiot's guide to condoms http://apps.who.int.../hiv_aids/dwcom/en/ [4and20, Aug 17 2014] HIV risk estimates http://www.cdc.gov/...icies/law/risk.html [4and20, Aug 17 2014] HIV and Queer Studies http://en.wikipedia...IV.2FAIDS_discourse [rcarty, Aug 18 2014] Sort of done - "Belle de Jour. While completing her doctoral studies, between 2003 and 2004, Magnanti supplemented her income by working as a London call girl known by the working name Taro..."-- not_morrison_rm, Aug 17 2014 Charms school?-- Voice, Aug 17 2014 I dove clear across the room to bun this idea.-- rcarty, Aug 17 2014 Reminds me of a joke: "Where do prostitutes go for higher education?" "Formalized Under-Covers Knowledge University" (fondly referred-to by its acronym)-- Vernon, Aug 17 2014 My buns crossed the room to clear this idea.-- normzone, Aug 17 2014 My crisscrossed buns like this idea.-- blissmiss, Aug 17 2014 No I actually dove, I thought I clicked 'PhD in sex' idea, and walked away to get something, then when it loaded I saw the full title and a dive resulted.
Believe it or not this is what needs to happen.-- rcarty, Aug 17 2014 First, make condoms better than 85% effective, by WHO estimates.-- 4and20, Aug 17 2014 Condoms are better than the 85% effectiveness of your WHO estimate. I don't know where you got the number, but obviously if the World Health Organization is doing statistical surveys, and producing an estimate at that, it likely indicates a large population group that is actually distributed between very high rates of effectiveness and likely very low rates of effectiveness when combining data from qualitatively different locales. So without knowing anything about the methodology or anything but what you've said, the aggregation of this data results in what we'll call an average percentage of effectiveness.
But that is entirely irrelevant to legitimizing marginalized people and allowing them to produce the discourses rather than being the object of sociological study that may produce discourses that problematize from whatever perspective the data manipulator is working from.-- rcarty, Aug 17 2014 In other words, show the corpse?-- 4and20, Aug 17 2014 If you're trying to show me something you better dig that methodology out of there, because this isn't a half credit course in respecting an idiot's authority or security will be called 101. Get that research method out.
My own sampling of the populations tell me that condoms work 100% of the time every time.-- rcarty, Aug 17 2014 That's a thorough methodology there, certainly. The link comes from the exact same page.-- 4and20, Aug 17 2014 "As such, it is not really appropriate to estimate condom effectiveness at 80%. While 80% is the best single estimate of effectiveness, it is also fair to say that the true measure of the effect could be as low as 35% or as high as 94%, as the authors state in the review."-- rcarty, Aug 17 2014 So...what are the chances of infection, starting with 1000 men who frequent prostitutes, combined with a 6% failure rate?-- 4and20, Aug 17 2014 6% of 1000 will be affected? 60 guys? the probability is 60 in 1000. So what's your point why can't they go to school?-- rcarty, Aug 17 2014 WKTE in sci-fi: the Companions in the TV series Firefly, the character Tamara in Heinlein's Lazarus Long books, etc.-- FlyingToaster, Aug 17 2014 That's one way to look at it. The real risk is for the woman. She will be exposed to the risk of STDs 60 times.
.3% of people in the UK have HIV. Using risk estimates from CDC (link), it appears that, even if 1% of the men are HIV positive, the risk of the woman getting HIV remains relatively low until the number of men gets very large. These estimates are just 3 times an average man's thumb.
I remember reading that 10 or 20% of the women in Victorian(?) London were prostitutes. It's a strange circumlocution to suddenly call it a path to empowerment, but then someone who pays extortionary university tuitions to study prostitution as a career, provided she isn't just attending Oxford for the money pool, isn't very bright anyway.-- 4and20, Aug 17 2014 Well these points you're raising don't correspond to the study. It refers to discordant couples where one is infected. Not just men. So the risk in not just to women. You're just trying to make a failed gender bias argument like the joke about a father and child who got in a car accident and when they got to the hospital the surgeon on duty says "that's my son!" how could it be. Oh noes the surgeon is a woman. And for ageism grandmother. Of course it could be a grandfather too. I'm probably not telling the joke right.
Anyway, nobody needs to be bright to go to university. At least not any university that specifically requires that.-- rcarty, Aug 17 2014 The very fair assumption is that the woman will have more clients than the man has prostitutes. Added to that is the WHO claim that women are more at risk of HIV. Seems as if you should be contributing a lot more based on the tone you adopt.-- 4and20, Aug 17 2014 Not at all I'm not really familiar with the document and don't really understand its significance to the discussion. If the woman has more men than the men has prostitutes, then the man is more likely to get it from the woman because women are more at risk of having HIV.
Anyway I like qualitative sociology, if I liked numbers pissing matches then I'd be out having numbers pissing matches or something.-- rcarty, Aug 17 2014 //WKTE in sci-fi// yup. Bujold's LPSTs (Licensed Practical Sexuality Therapists)...-- lurch, Aug 17 2014 I would suggest an anger management course is included in the phd, for when the client decides to haggle after the event...-- not_morrison_rm, Aug 17 2014 Nice try. I'll have to take a look at my last conclusion as well. I was just getting irritated that the idea turned into a moral panic about the HIV epidemic, when really it's an idea about educating and empowering sex workers to shape discourses plus innuendo.
//The very fair assumption is that the woman will have more clients than the man has prostitutes. Added to that is the WHO claim that women are more at risk of HIV. Seems as if you should be contributing a lot more based on the tone you adopt.//
This statement led me to conclude that if the prostitute has more clients than the clients have prostitutes, and women are more at risk of acquiring HIV, THEN each client is much more likely to be infected with HIV by each prostitute, than each prostitute is to be infected by HIV by each client. This is because the prostitute has a higher risk of acquiring HIV as a woman and she is is having sex with more men. Men, who have a lower risk of acquiring HIV from women, still are taking a greater risk with each prostitute who has sex with more clients and has a higher risk of acquiring HIV. If men had a higher or equal risk of acquiring HIV from women THEN we could say each client is much more of a risk or the same risk as each prostitute. (this is about heterosexual men and women)
Ok, that's talking about prostitutes. But women in general are at a higher risk of acquiring HIV from men than men are from women.-- rcarty, Aug 18 2014 My buns crossed the room to clear this idea. — normzone, Aug 17 2014 [edit, delete]-- normzone, Aug 18 2014 And did it end up becoming clear?
Is this something about this?
//My own sampling of the populations tell me that condoms work 100% of the time every time.//
That was a joke. I'm interested in the idea because I read that book in the link. (not very long ago)-- rcarty, Aug 18 2014 It seems as if this topic is replete with statistical landmines. For example, HIV transmission rates in the WHO cited condom study seem remarkably higher than CDC estimates of transmission risks. Apropos of this post, the condom study measures HIV risk in man-years. That can't be a continuous working year of sex.
But using the suspect CDC estimates, the risk for the woman seems relatively low, even if she goes "around-the-world". The idea that the man is more at risk because the woman has a higher rate of HIV would only make sense if the woman was not using condoms or making dumb choices with drugs.
Given that the condom study only looked at successful HIV transmission, the rate of failure could be much higher for general condom failure, including all other STDs, known and unknown.
Your discourse mumbo jumbo doesn't make any sense and reminds me of the nonsense I was afflicted with by the "postmodernist swarm" at university. What's worrisome is that badly translated French vulgarisms may still hold sway over scientific understanding among some "educated" classes. There's not a doubt in the world that statistics has its problems, but I'll still take it over some sexually appealing, power-mad discourse which gives women STDs.-- 4and20, Aug 18 2014 wow...
much debate
very strange
Amaze
so education
much important-- mofosyne, Aug 18 2014 I've always wondered why they say it is the *world's oldest profession*. Which came first, the pimp or the ho?-- xandram, Aug 18 2014 / Which came first, the pimp or the ho? /
Cave woman Alice and Caveman Jack have just finished for the fifth time tonight. He is starting to look interested again.
She says "No way Jack, unless you come up with some brontosaurus bucks."
Even if he replies "and my cousin Bill for a few more?"
She already turned Professional.
So Ho s before Pimp s. They got more skin in the game.-- popbottle, Aug 18 2014 [4and20] I'm not acknowledging your first three paragraphs because those are your links, and HIV is only tangentially related to the topic. Using the logic of including HIV as an objection to marginalized people is actually what created Queer Theory and Queer Studies [link]. It's not relevant and identifies you as a bigot.
You don't understand what I'm saying - the client is more at risk because a given prostitute is more likely to have been infected with HIV than a given client. The prostitute can be said to have a higher risk, but it is distributed among many lower risk clients. Lets put it even simpler if you were to visit a prostitute who would be at higher risk of acquiring HIV in that exchange?
This is not in any way postmodern discourse. Postmodern discourse is a way of being incredulous at established modes of thinking. I see none of that here, with one very small exception.
And [xandram] I would call prostitution "the worlds boldest profession". Prostitution would likely coincide with a later social development of women having rights over their own bodies, and likely doesn't predate other professions for that reason.-- rcarty, Aug 18 2014 There seems to be no motivation or reason to address rcarty. It's hard to believe anyone is listening to him. He's quite insistent that women prostitutes are at a high risk of HIV. His only answer is to train more women by charging them to listen to years of a slightly improved rcarty philosophy, stripped of any discussion of STDs mind you, because *whisper STD talk is worse than prostitution.
I imagine a certain number of women choose prostitution because they like it. A lot more end up there because they're poor or abused. Others may just be ignorant of STDs and whatever other drawbacks it holds. Rcarty is quite cavalier with other people's lives, as long as he can define it as a choice. Witness his respect for Robin William's suicide. There are people who are suffering, don't know it and need help.
Rcarty seems to be one of those people, which is why suggesting that he try prostitution and really give it to the man who's trying to keep him down with all this STD talk may seem slightly amusing but just might be dangerous in his case.-- 4and20, Aug 19 2014 //It's hard to believe anyone is listening to him
I do...
//*
Ok, where's the footnote?
//women choose prostitution because they like it.
Erm, it's kind of boring to be honest, and you do get the client haggling after the event, as I mentioned previously, which is a bit of downer really.-- not_morrison_rm, Aug 19 2014 Won't someone please think of the male prostitutes!-- Voice, Aug 19 2014 Er, no.-- not_morrison_rm, Aug 19 2014 random, halfbakery