Built off the path that mountain climbers take, an entirely enclosed stairway that you can use to climb Mount Everest complete with restaurants, pubs and even hotels placed strategically along the way. The top would have a beautiful luxury resort with hot tubs, pools etc. There would be appropriate medical facilities as well.
Now for those saying we can't despoil this great natural wonder, I'd point out that it's currently desolate location for crazy rich people (most pay about $45,000 to climb it) many of whom die on the trek, their bodies being left in the snow, sometimes for generations.
So OK, we've had our fun with suicide mountain, how about retaining adventure portion and greatly reducing the danger because climbers could tap out and walk twenty feet over to the climate controlled hallway up the mountain, knock on the door and warm up, get some oxygen, a hot meal and if they're smart, an escalator or tram trip down to the bottom.
As far as wrecking the beauty of the mountain, that thing is big, you wouldn't even be able to see this structure without powerful binoculars. The resort at the top maybe, but a ten foot tall, hallway going up the side, especially painted to match the mountain would be very hard to notice.-- doctorremulac3, May 24 2019 Dhunno, seems like putting something on top of Everest wouldn't despoil the majesty. https://www.faceboo...Tk4OTMwNzM1ODEzMjE/This mountain top development looks pretty cool. [doctorremulac3, May 25 2019] Beeb news, queing to stand on the top https://www.google....oOFBdzzEAXZuYjvlcoT [not_morrison_rm, May 25 2019] Nepal's number one industry? Tourism. https://en.wikipedi...ki/Economy_of_NepalJust sayin'... [doctorremulac3, May 26 2019] //crazy rich people (most pay about $45,000 to climb it)// Uh, can I just point out that being able to afford $45K is not many people's idea of crazy rich, or even (if you meant crazy, comma, rich) rich.
Howevertheless, I do approve of this scheme. But the soft- option route should be carved as a tunnel *inside* the mountain. This means that, after some crazy non-rich masochist has wheezed her way up the outside of the mountain and made it to the summit, you'd be able to open a little trap door next to her and offer her a cup of tea.
Oh, and alas, [-].-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 24 2019 // how about retaining adventure portion and greatly reducing the danger //
No. Very non-Darwinian.
[-]-- 8th of 7, May 24 2019 Kinda defeats the purpose of climbing a steep, inhospitable, brutally cold obstacle if one can but take the easy way out shod with furry bunny slippers and a Sherpa to tote your hot toddy.
On the other hand a guided tour of the sights along the way to include the various (hundreds) of colorfully adorned dead bodies, folks who did not take the easy way, might be interesting.-- whatrock, May 25 2019 People could still torture themselves to death, this would be another way to get to the highest place on Earth. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be developed. Nothing lives up there, it's rock and ice. If you're discrete, it could even be invisible like Max said.
Sigh, it's nature though so I guess we should just leave it for postcards and suicidal rich masochists.-- doctorremulac3, May 25 2019 Actually, given the marked geologic instability of the entire region, this could still result in huge numbers of unnecessary deaths, so we have changed our vote to [+] on the condition that the structure is badly designed, shoddily built of inferior materials, and completely lacking any seismic mitigation or indeed emergency exits.-- 8th of 7, May 25 2019 Surely cheaper to make a “Climb Mt Everest “ VR simulator? The VR helmet could have a small syringe of something lethal to plunge into your neck if you ‘die’ in the VR.-- hippo, May 25 2019 I disagree that building man made structures in nature somehow destroys it. Paving over a flower filled field and building a strip mall is one thing, but putting a glittering, crystalline skyscraper on a mudflat can enhance the beauty of nature.
Man made stuff is natural by the way, we're not robots, we're products of nature as well. The New York skyline is a product of nature. The Eiffel Tower was created naturally by natural natured naturals that were nurtured by nature naturally.
That being said robots are natural too, but then again there's nothing that isn't natural so... yea.-- doctorremulac3, May 25 2019 Yes, man-made stuff is as natural as termite mounds. However, we humans like to see stuff we haven't made, as well as stuff we made.-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 25 2019 Likewise, people complaining when their food contains “chemicals”-- hippo, May 25 2019 Apparently you have to get in a queue to stand on the peak of Everest these days. Link-- not_morrison_rm, May 25 2019 Well, they should put up a parking lot.-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 25 2019 //we humans like to see stuff we haven't made, as well as stuff we made//
I say let the Nepalasoids decide. It's their mountain.
Hey Nepal, how about a billion a year added to your economy from tourism? Or you can keep the postcard view of the mountain without a couple of lights on it at night. A billion dollars buys a lot of vintage postcards if you get nostalgic.
Actually, all the lights could be internal so they're not visible from outside I suppose, but I think lighting the world is the prettiest thing man does. Nature likes it too. Ask the moths.-- doctorremulac3, May 25 2019 //Hey Nepal, how about a billion a year added to your economy from tourism?// And that, ladies and gentlemen, is American imperialism at its finest, buying hearts and minds. Would you like to go large?-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 25 2019 There is one thing about climbing Everest which is hard to get elsewhere and that is a free mummification service with the slim chance of being cloned by future inhabitants.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, May 25 2019 // they should put up a parking lot //
That would be good, then you could build a tree museum right next to it.
// buying hearts and minds. //
It's much better than some if the other ways of persuasion. "When you've got them by the balls, their heads and their hearts will folliw".
// we're not robots //
There there, no need to panic ... we're here now, and we can help.-- 8th of 7, May 25 2019 Don't forget to tip your sherpa.
Actually, thinking about it, that might be a bad thing.-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 25 2019 //And that, ladies and gentlemen, is American imperialism at its finest,//
We've hopefully learned a thing or two about empire from you guys, namely, don't do it. But commerce and development, that's something else. Empire is marriage, international commerce is a quickie where everybody gets what they want without the "Hey, let's all live together!" commitment. Goods and services are exchanged, one party leaves the money on the table and goes home, everybody's happy.
No, they'd build it, the Nepalonians would put the design, construction etc out for bid to everybody. Get it built with say a 3 year note to pay it off, the rest is gravy.
Sherpas get a starting salary of say... $100,000 a year? Housing included because while you've got all that construction stuff, gonna want infrastructure. A beautiful shining city at the base of the mountain.
And robots. Lots and lots of robots.
And what I said about no lights at night? Screw that. This thing would sparkle like a friggin Christmas tree.
But again, not for me to say, take it to the Nepalpalanians, let them vote on making enough money to buy a week's worth of goat's milk by dragging some dumb westerner half way up a mountain to die or live in a nice little 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath place with a hot tub in the back and a 40 hour work week. Full medical care, college for the kids, 6 weeks vacation a year....
a car instead of a fucking donkey?
Like I said, it's their mountain.-- doctorremulac3, May 26 2019 // a car instead of a fucking donkey? //
Thankfully our knowledge of the sexual proclivities of the Nepalese is very limited when the subject is domestic and domesticated animals. Yakety-yak ...
Cars are of limited utility in a mountainous environment lacking roads.-- 8th of 7, May 26 2019 //But commerce and development, that's something else. // I respectfully disagree. It's a nicer way to build an empire, but it's still imperialism. It's like winning the lottery and then visiting a friend's house and saying "Hey, I don't like your wallpaper, here's a thousand bucks if you redecorate with something I like." The fact that America doesn't see why this is a problem, is the problem.-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 26 2019 //Cars are of limited utility in a mountainous environment lacking roads.//
Build roads.
//It's a nicer way to build an empire, but it's still imperialism.//
No Americans would benefit from this at all. In this scenario the Nepalons (OK, I'll give that a break) decide to develop their own natural resource, a famous mountain, after voting on it. They put bids out to contractors and financial organizations all over the world to build and manage a small city on it. Properly done, loans for the construction would be paid for by tourist dollars and in a few years the investment would bring hundreds of millions of dollars a year into the local economy.
Put it all on one side of the mountain maybe, leave the other side o'natural for the postcards and the suicidal rich.
Good name for a punk band.
By the way, I want to talk to the English about imperialism. I posit that there's imperial guilt but vestigial imperial desire that's being satisfied by bringing the new empire home to within Britain's borders. "We're not taking their land, in fact we're giving them OUR land so it's OK." This merging of cultures for social or economic reasons, or whatever, you tell me, is sacrosanct and cannot be questioned. To ask why groups of people must be moved from here to there means you hate them. No other reason.
Similar thing happening here. In our case it's about establishing a one party system after the Democrats losing election after election. It's also about driving down wages so the rich can get richer and to establish a two class system, a permanent, self appointed ruling class and an obedient worker bee class. In doing so that pesky, uppity middle class would be eliminated, which is probably a vestige of the communist manifesto philosophy which most Democrats were indoctrinated with in college. (Whether they knew it or not by the way.) Unfortunately their professors seemed to have skipped over the chapters in the book where the workers were elevated and went right to the part where the vanguard of the proletariat was anointed total power over life the universe and everything.
As an American I have some harsh views of any kind of imperialism and yes, we do stuff that I'm not happy with. Being the policeman of the world got old a long time ago for instance. Suggesting that some shithole country build a water purification plant is OK, but suggesting that Afghanistan be transformed into Kensingon East is a farce and a waste of time. This new improved imperialism where we bring the world home to civilize it rather than going over there and shooting at them until they love us seems to be satisfying that same old imperial itch but with an attractive new "humanitarian" packaging.
Thoughts?-- doctorremulac3, May 26 2019 //Man made stuff is natural by the way// Yeah, working 10hrs a day for virtual measurement. That's natural.
In a world where all different logics are needed to expand the collective mind. Wanting all Kensingtons is a self limiting exercise.-- wjt, May 26 2019 //Thoughts?//
Well, you said //No Americans would benefit from this at all.//, but that's neither true nor the point. The point is that you get to create a little piece of America right there in Nepal. And the beneficiaries will be (largely American) visitors who get to stay in familiar comfortable surroundings in an unfamiliar and uncomfortable place.
Do you ever wonder whether it's _normal_ for an American to be able to visit any city in the world and stay at an American hotel, order American fast food and wash it down with Coke or Pepsi? I can tell you, it's not normal - it has been made possible because American tourist dollars have in effect purchased parts of the city and its culture. The prevailing attitude is "Hey, this place would be great if there were a Holiday Inn!", and bingo - one is built to meet the demand.
I'm not saying the locals aren't complicit - they let Holiday Inn buy the place because they get money. It's just that it gradually obliterates everything else. Like I said, it's like visiting a poorer friend's house and offering him wads of money to redecorate it to your taste.
I was thinking about this a lot yesterday, and wondering why Americans* are both courted and hated in much of Europe (I don't actually know much about Nepal), and I think this is why. I guess Randy Newman said it better.
*as a mass; most people including me seem to like most individual Americans on a personal level.-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 26 2019 //but that's neither true nor the point. The point is that you get to create a little piece of America right there in Nepal. And the beneficiaries will be (largely American) visitors who get to stay in familiar comfortable surroundings in an unfamiliar and uncomfortable place.//
OK, ban all Americans from participating in any aspect of this. No Americans on Everest ever again. Fine with me.
//The prevailing attitude is "Hey, this place would be great if there were a Holiday Inn!", and bingo - one is built to meet the demand.//
As opposed to seeing people living in squalor and saying "Oh how quaint, look how much better we are than them. They're so amusing." Offering people a better way to do things is the most respectful thing you can do to a culture.
//It's just that it gradually obliterates everything else. Like I said, it's like visiting a poorer friend's house and offering him wads of money to redecorate it to your taste.// I'm sure the people of the third world are very excited about walking around in loincloths for our amusement, but once most humans get a taste of technology they ain't going back. Culture can endure the onslaught of advances in science, technology and medicine.
Japan is still uniquely Japanese despite falling in love with western industry after the turn of the century. They occasionally, often surpass us. It's a point of pride for them. I love the story of how post WW2, Mr Toyota took a tour of the Ford plant, realized Japan could never compete with the industrial might of the U.S. so he devised a way of making cars that utilized the power of the individual worker on the assembly line to better the process. Got a way to eliminate this step? You'll get rewarded if it's implemented. When the gas crisis hit in the 70, their streamlined way of making small, cheap cars put them at the top of the game. But cultural relationships are like any bonding of two parties. Some are matches made in heaven, some not so much.
//I was thinking about this a lot yesterday, and wondering why Americans* are both courted and hated in much of Europe//
Probably because we say stuff like in the previous line. But also, the globalists ironically need to divide and conquer. America has a reputation of not falling in line, blowing up countries with super great plans for world domination, that sort of thing, so the masses need to be indoctrinated into hating it.
But mostly they're just jealous of our big wieners.-- doctorremulac3, May 26 2019 //OK, ban all Americans from participating in any aspect of this.// The point is, [doc], that you came up with something that Americans would like. And they probably would. The problem with this is - well, here's a related point you made:
//Offering people a better way to do things is the most respectful thing you can do to a culture// which speaks to the same point. What you're offering them is an _American's idea_ of the better way to do things, which is not the only better way to do things.
// I'm sure the people of the third world are very excited about walking around in loincloths for our amusement, but once most humans get a taste of technology they ain't going back.// Well, I don't think the Nepalese wear loincloths, though obviously they will when you pay them to. But what America "gives" to the rest of the world is not technology or trousers; it's MTV and Wallmart jogging pants; you're "giving", but on American terms because you can't envisage another way of life that's good.
Also, I lied a bit when I said I don't know much about Nepal - my buddy is developing an arsenic test-kit that will be cheap and need no underlying technology or skills. It's needed because much of the well-water in Nepal is periodically contaminated with arsenic, depending on which way the ground- water is flowing that year. So I know a bit about at least one thing they need, and it's not MTV or Holiday Inn.
It's the well-intentioned inability to "get" it that is the fundamental problem.-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 26 2019 //Offering people a better way to do things is the most respectful thing you can do to a culture// which speaks to the same point. What you're offering them is an _American's idea_ of the better way to do things, which is not the only better way to do things.//
So let them decide, not us. (for the sixth time) We should have no say in their internal affairs as long as it doesn't effect us. That being said, throw them an interesting idea. If they like it, OK, if not, that's OK too.
//But what America "gives" to the rest of the world is not technology or trousers; it's MTV and Wallmart jogging pants; you're "giving"// ...life saving medicine... oh wait, I'm not supposed to list advances in science, technology and medicine if they're American. OK, fine, but nobody is forced to watch MTV, wear jogging pants, which I don't think we invented, or go to Walmart. That being said, having the choices to wear jogging pants to Walmart before you go home to eat bonbons while watching MTV is something I'd like to have the choice of doing and I don't mind other cultures having access to if they so choose. I go to Walmart all the time. It's mostly lower socioeconomic folks that go there but I'm OK with that. Used to be one myself. Probably started a lot lower on the rung than most of the people there.
//but on American terms because you can't envisage another way of life that's good.// Like climbing halfway a mountain and freezing to death? Guess you've got me on that one. You're wrong about my assuming there's one good way to approach having a civilization. I've spoken about how western diets are very bad for instance. They're convenient, addicting and horrible for you. That being said electricity is good. I've also given praise to non-technological people like the Amish who chose to stay away from some modern conveniences. That's great, whatever works for them.
//my buddy is developing an arsenic test-kit that will be cheap and need no underlying technology or skills.// Ohhh, I see. His way of approaching challenges to health is so superior to their natural and customary way of dealing with arsenic, that is dying from being poisoned from it as is their custom? Who's imparting western dogma on other cultures now? Here, let me turn the sarcasm knob down to 11 for a sec. See? It's OK to offer to help people, whether they're on the other side of town or the other side of the globe, that's all.
//It's the well-intentioned inability to "get" it that is the fundamental problem.// Well, I certainly don't "get" what's wrong with helping people test for arsenic in their water, or showing them how to generate electricity to light their nights, or vaccinate their children so they don't die horrible deaths. So well, you've got me there. Guess I don't get it. Unless the secret is not offering them things that offend Max, like Walmart and jogging pants.
Let me ask you this, say the idea was suggested, they voted on it and it overwhelmingly passed. They did it and loved it. Would that be a bad thing? I'm all about self determination for all people, but me and you shouldn't be pointing fingers and telling anybody what they should like or shouldn't like. Even judging them for wearing jogging pants at Walmart.
Would you consider it a travesty if after they turned Everest into an amusement park, they celebrated by having an annual jogging pants day to celebrate?
Now before you answer, realize you and I ARE engaged in a heated argument about people in Nepal wearing jogging pants. Just sayin'.
Side note: your buddy is obviously a bad-ass dude for doing that by the way. The arsenic kit I mean.-- doctorremulac3, May 26 2019 *sigh* Two cultures forever divided by a common language.
I'm going to step out of this discussion since it's never going to leave base camp. But I leave on a note of agreement: my buddy is indeed a badass dude.-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 26 2019 OK, just don't tell him about my idea to turn Mount Everest into a massive roller coaster park. I don't want him to steal it.-- doctorremulac3, May 26 2019 I'm not telling a soul until I finish filing the patents.-- MaxwellBuchanan, May 26 2019 random, halfbakery