As subtitle - Donald Trump has already shown interest in large lumps of Scotland - why not go the whole hog?
Everybody wins - Scotland becomes independent of England and Donald Trump gets to build as many golf courses as he likes.
If this is insufficient to clear the debt, then flog off New Zealand and Australia too.-- coprocephalous, Dec 10 2009 The Darien Expedition http://en.wikipedia.../Dari%C3%A9n_schemeWhatever happened to the Kingdom of Scotland? [DrBob, Dec 10 2009] Bouncy Hadrian's Wall Bouncy_20Hadrian_27s_20WallCould be useful. [8th of 7, Dec 13 2009] Rab C Nesbit, being denied extra social security to buy booze http://www.youtube....watch?v=8k7VoFiagfsDocumentary following a typical Scottish man. [Jinbish, Dec 14 2009] Scotland for sale to furriners http://www.highland...s.com/buy_title.aspSOMEBODY intends to clear their debts [AusCan531, Oct 18 2011] Make it a Buy One Get One Free offer - if they buy Scotland they get Wales for free. Then they can take Scotland away, and the Welsh can BOGOF ......
[+]-- 8th of 7, Dec 10 2009 We'll buy Northern Ireland. No wait, we're more broke than the UK....-- wagster, Dec 10 2009 Can we keep Loch Morar, though?-- Dub, Dec 10 2009 //Everybody wins//
Except they don't. Despite the usual nationalistic tubthumping from the SNP et al, the majority of Scots are canny enough to realise that independence is not a financially viable prospect, however attractive it might be for other reasons. This is why current polling indicates that a referendum on Scottish independence would return a "No" if it came to it.[+] from an English perspective.-- DocBrown, Dec 10 2009 Interesting that this assumes that in the imaginary corporate structure of the UK, England is the holding company and each of Scotland, Wales, Norn Irn are subsidiaries of England. Of course, this is not the case. The UK is clearly a partnership, incorporated albeit tacitly (and pre-emptively) under the Partnership Act 1890. This has consequences. No partner can sell the other partner's share (as there is no share), but each partner can elect to leave the partnerhip and remove their own capital contribution. This means that a Scotch exit results in a dimunition of value to the UK partnership and Scotland suffers no more than the loss of economies of scale.
Perhaps a better bet for the UK, then, is to solicit for either a merger or some sort of lateral hire, as it were, of a country of appropriate size and outlook (Denmark, for example) and use Denmark's capital contribution to bouy up the finances of the UK partnership. Of course, the Danes, being a bloodthirsty and contrary race, will want something out of this but I am sure that the O.G. UK nations can do the classic gentleman's club thing and stitch the Denmark up good and proper such that she is forced to resign herself from the partnership and forego her capital entitlement, returning, politically speaking, to the quasi-Scando wilderness, a ravaged husk of a country, used, hollow and sad.
The Commonwealth countries, though, are clearly subordinate to the UK Partnership, and can indeed be sold. If Scotland is to exit the partnership, Edinburgh would obviously seek to take ownership of primarily Scottish colonies such as Canadia and New Zealand, leaving the English with Australia and the Welsh rueing their failure to defend Patagonia.-- calum, Dec 10 2009 Although selling the home nation of William McGonagall sounds like a tragedy this could be a good way to refinance. [+]-- Aristotle, Dec 10 2009 There is a certain irony in this idea, in that Scotland forewent it's independence in return for England paying off its national debt after the Darien fiasco (mind you, the English had helped turn it into a fiasco by blockading the colony but hey, that's business!). The idea of selling off Scotland to clear England's national debt therefore has an elegant symmetry to it. However, I'd rather have the miserable, bandy-legged, porridge violating Scots and the damp, vowel-less, close harmony fetishist Welsh as neighbours in preference to Donald Trump any day of the week. Fishbone.-- DrBob, Dec 10 2009 Could we set up a lease arrangement - we could rent Scotland out for parties, weddings, golf tournaments, summer holidays, fishing and whisky tours. Wales we could lease to the Netherlands for hill-walking and mountaineering, and , er, to someone else for sheep? male voice choirs? rain?-- Frankx, Dec 10 2009 Since there is approximately $4.3 trillion worth of oil under the Falklands I suspect that there might be a better candidate than Scotland or Wales. Shame really.-- The_Saint, Dec 10 2009 //The UK is clearly a partnership//
Um...no, it's not clear that's the case.
//This means that a Scotch exit results in a dimunition of value to the UK partnership and Scotland suffers no more than the loss of economies of scale. //
...because it then magically becomes self-funding? Methadone ain't free y'know!-- DocBrown, Dec 10 2009 //each partner can elect to leave the partnerhip and remove their own capital contribution//
Shame you guys didn't quit before digging up all your oil for us, hey [calum]?-- wagster, Dec 10 2009 Well certainly, when a partner leaves a partnership, there is usually a round of discussions relating not only to the capital contribution but also any net increase in value that the partnership enjoys as a result of the exiting partner's time in the partnership. However, I had calculated that the revenue stream associated with the oil probably netted off exactly against the perceived iniquities of the Barnett Formula and the increase NHS costs for the treatment of heart disease, lung cancer and hootsmonitis. This would leave some balance due from the Leftover UK to Scotland in respect of whisky duties, perhaps with a further compensatory sum due recognising the essential Scottishness of the Industrial Revolution, Britian's contribution to the Enlightenment and the fact that we gave you the Krankies.-- calum, Dec 10 2009 [copro]: You've not thought this through. If the "UK" sold of its constituent parts, leaving England, there would be an issue of nomenclature.
You don't want to be referred to, internationally, as "Formally United Kingdom, England"...-- Jinbish, Dec 10 2009 //and the fact that we gave you the Krankies//
We need more than just a few billion barrels of oil in recompense for that one, you bastards.-- wagster, Dec 10 2009 [docB] I'm afraid you're wrong; it is a Union between two equals. Hence being the 'United Kingdom'. Also national slurs are rarely funny or nice.
England does not 'own' Scotland and therefore cannot sell it.
[marked-for-deletion] naïve fantasy politics-- pocmloc, Dec 10 2009 // England does not 'own' Scotland //
Actually, that issue has already been vigorously debated - at Culloden Moor to be exact - and was settled in favour of the English.-- 8th of 7, Dec 10 2009 Dear oh dear. Not nice.-- salachair, Dec 10 2009 //"Formally United Kingdom, England"//
Untied Kingdom would be simple enough.-- shudderprose, Dec 10 2009 //You don't want to be referred to, internationally, as "Formally United Kingdom, England"...//No, you'd want to be referred to as "Formerly United Kingdom, England"...-- AbsintheWithoutLeave, Dec 10 2009 //Culloden Moor to be exact - and was settled in favour of the English//
A battle between, the United Kingdom government forces comprised of both English and Scots regiments, and sectarian rebels led by a Frenchman who was aiming to take over the whole UK - this is settling in favour of who exactly?
Still [marked-for-deletion] <wonders> is this like a pelican crossing, does it speed things up if you press it again?</wonders>-- pocmloc, Dec 10 2009 [AWOL]: Oh dear - what on Earth was I doing there? <covers face in shame>-- Jinbish, Dec 10 2009 // in favour of who exactly //
The survivors ....-- 8th of 7, Dec 10 2009 It was 264 years ago, I don't think there are any survivors (unless [random_patenter _syndrome_victim] was there)-- pocmloc, Dec 10 2009 There are some other solutions.. 1) Just we all leave the country. Can't see why the Icelanders aren't actually doing it, there's only 300,000 there, not that many ships/jumbo jets.
2) Change the name of England to North France or something like that and every time someone calls about the debt we all go "naaah mate, that'll be them in the next country, must be your sat-nav on the fritz"
3) Do what Henry the Eighth did, borrow the money, devalue the currency, then pay it back..I suggest NuPounds.
"I don't think there are any survivors" you're not catching me out again that way, pocmloc-- random_patenter_syndrome_victim, Dec 10 2009 Notice, everyone, the lack of denial-- pocmloc, Dec 10 2009 I like the idea of selling the Falklands to Venezuela. If the Argentines are still so inclined it would be a lot easier for them to have a proper war with Venezuela and it will keep Venezuela busy.-- bungston, Dec 11 2009 Don't you all see?
I admire the frugality.
Alaska was the land I imagined on our auction block.
Think like you're in power, though.
Debt, debt, & more debt - far as you can see.
Cost / benifit - analysis - Scotland & its tax income vs sale of such & time.
It's so much easier to start printing up pounds than deal with the weight of being ineffective.
My googling tells me _ only Japan resists this quick way out.
Want to clear the UK's debt?
Invest in education. S Korea proved that's the way out!-- Zimmy, Dec 11 2009 Hear hear!
Raise up that working class and see what happens.-- 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 11 2009 Argentina is a long way away from Venezuela.-- Zimmy, Dec 11 2009 //Do what Henry the Eighth did, borrow the money, devalue the currency, then pay it back//
There seems to be a fair bit of progress being made in that direction already. The UK has already completed the first two parts of the plan, now it's just that tricky third bit.-- wagster, Dec 11 2009 My googling tells me _ only Japan resists this quick way out.
"Invest in education. S Korea proved that's the way out" having worked in the commercial arm of education there...there's something mighty sad about watching school kids wandering around after 10pm still in their school uniform on their way back home from maybe their second or third after-school club of that evening. I think they just improved their economy by the old fashioned way of working damn hard and being cheaper than anyone else. Car workers went on strike 7 years ago to protest about going over to a five day week, it was six days a week before.
As for Japan...there are still in the same recession they were effectively in since the end of the 1980's. As an example, 2 bedroom house, detached, bit of a garden, 30 miles outside Tokyo, £50,000. Compare that with a similar property that distance away from New York, or London. Go take a peek on google earth at the blue boxes along the side of the Sumida river in Tokyo, the homeless.-- random_patenter_syndrome_victim, Dec 11 2009 anything that brings [salachair] back to the committee has to be good but I'm not voting for this the "other" bits of the UK are too dear to my heart.-- po, Dec 11 2009 Don't worry [po], you'll still be allowed to visit. We'll fast-track you through border patrol.-- Jinbish, Dec 11 2009 hah, I know what you scots do to anyone at the airport who looks slightly dodgy!-- po, Dec 11 2009 "We'll set about ye".-- Jinbish, Dec 11 2009 //Argentina is a long way away from Venezuela//And the UK is even further, but we still sorted 'em out.-- coprocephalous, Dec 11 2009 //we gave you the Krankies// And very painful and irritating it was too! It took many years and dozens of injections before a full physical recovery was effected. Repairing the psychological damage, however, will take many more years I fear. I shall never make physical contact with a Scot again unless they can provide full and certificated details of their current health status, a recent utility bill and signed affadavits from several independent witnesses to the effect that they are not, and have never been, a member of a Scottish double-act of any kind. [wanders off singing chorus to "I would walk five hundred miles"...]-- DrBob, Dec 11 2009 Not just the Krankies. No-one has yet been prosecuted in the infamous "Lulu" case either. And there are others ....-- 8th of 7, Dec 11 2009 //I'm afraid you're wrong; it is a Union between two equals. Hence being the 'United Kingdom'.//
The United Nations is a union between nations but would you draw the conclusion therefore that Ethiopia, for example, is equal in terms of financial clout to the USA or China?
Whatever the other benefits of union with Scotland, and there are many I'm sure, if you consider things solely from a financial perspective Scotland is not an equal, it is a dependent.-- DocBrown, Dec 11 2009 //Do what Henry the Eighth did, borrow the money, devalue the currency, then pay it back// What [wags] said - except that the "tricky" part is just a matter of spending it all on solid GDP indifferent commodities like gold (oil would be good, but its price fluctuates with demand, which in turn fluctuates with global productivity, as well as the decisions of an artificial supply cartel, so it's a bit more of a punt). Watch the currencies go through the floor and then step back off your commodity "raft" when it's all over. In fact, if it wasn't for the prospect of ridiculous interest rate-hikes in the coming few years, now should be a fantastic time to borrow money, because in 5 years or so, the pound and dollar are going to be worth bog all.-- zen_tom, Dec 11 2009 Erm, but if we borrowed 5 gazillion pounds, when the pound was actually worth something and then pay it back when 5 gazillion pounds is about the same value as a packet of cigarettes, then it worked.
Except of course if you had savings. That's always the tricky bit. Seeing as no one I actually know in the UK of my age range (ok, apparent age range if you're reading this pocmloc) actually has any savings....-- random_patenter_syndrome_victim, Dec 11 2009 Who needs Trump? The Scots now have Susan Boyle. She might buy a large part of Scotland.-- outloud, Dec 11 2009 Who? [Googles] Oh, her. Correction - she /is/ a large part of Scotland.I see your Susan Boyle, and raise you one Ruthie Henshall.-- AbsintheWithoutLeave, Dec 11 2009 // I see your Susan Boyle //
My eyes! My eyes!-- Jinbish, Dec 11 2009 //the "tricky" part is just a matter of spending it all on solid GDP indifferent commodities like gold// ...and land! Land is mostly a good, durable investment. We could sell off Scotland and buy some...err...land.-- DrBob, Dec 13 2009 .... that isn't cold, bleak, rainswept, midge-ridden, where everywhere seems to be uphill, and where the few barely habitable areas are infested with incomprehensible, hostile drunks.-- 8th of 7, Dec 13 2009 Oh yes. Everything North of 54˚ is on offer.-- 8th of 7, Dec 13 2009 I can see why this might get marked-for-deletion but then again, I can see a way that we could perhaps twist and repurpose the idea so that it veers away from rote Jock-mocking into something slightly better than deletion-worthy. Having thought about the idea some, I realise that what is proposed, behind the actual text as posted, is a notion of corporate statehood where, rather than Congolese style imperialism, the subsidiary nation is a participates not under the threat of force, but under either by means of the enticements of capitalisted subsidiarism or following a hostile takeover, conducted in corner boardrooms forty floors above the key CBD of whichever nation is bankrolling the investment.
For this to work, the notion of a nation must be uprooted from the land - success cannot be achieved while there are partisan romantics roving the uplands armed with rifles and Leonard Cohen lyrics, taking potshots at the corporate infrastructure. Equally, socially constructed nationalism must be eroded, by such passively educational measures the banning of international sports teams and the creation of a global sporting market. Finally, localised cultural norms (e.g. crown green bowling, Last of the Summer Wine, sexual repression) require to be eliminated.
This will take much work, it is true. But the end result is a global political map of capitalist empires that are not subject to geographical or historic borders, no, instead it is made up of a patchwork of increasingly tiny micro nations, each, if it so desires, raising the colours of whichever nationalist conglomerate owns the majority of the sharecapital, Africa still likely being made up of failed, deadlocked JVs, left to rot while the profitable enterprises to the north and east trundle on, the patchwork blinking colour to colour as nations are traded on the regulated exchange run out of the People's Republic of Rod's Tiger's Back Garden. Progress.-- calum, Dec 14 2009 // rote Jock-mocking //Far from it [calum].I conceived of the idea as a means of implementing some border controls, in the remote and forelorn hope of preventing my Scottish M-I-L from descending upon us this festive season.-- coprocephalous, Dec 14 2009 What if Scotland sells England and Wales instead? Wouldn't it be more lucrative? Wouldn't it also get them back for the Darien Scheme? Isn't that some kind of housing estate in Central America?-- nineteenthly, Dec 14 2009 // the Welsh rueing their failure to defend Patagonia //
Still spoken of with some bitterness in the pubs round Aberystwith .....
// preventing my Scottish M-I-L from descending upon us //
Has it not occurred to you to ask why "Claymore mines" are so called ?-- 8th of 7, Dec 14 2009 //Has it not occurred to you to ask why "Claymore mines" are so called //Because they belong to youse?-- coprocephalous, Dec 14 2009 Close, but no cigar.-- 8th of 7, Dec 14 2009 //repurpose the idea so that it veers away from rote Jock-mocking// [Statler & Waldorf] "Boo! Boo! Get him off! He's awful! Boo! Rubbish! Terrible!" [/S&W}-- DrBob, Dec 14 2009 //Scottish M-I-L//I have one of those too. Hmmm. Thinking about it, I'll vote for your idea if you allow Scotland do a bit of mini Balkanisation by selling off, in turn, the whole of Lanarkshire.-- calum, Dec 14 2009 //selling off, in turn, the whole of Lanarkshire.//
<Rab C Nesbit>Oh, it's like that is it? It's like that. Well, let me tell you something, pal... </Rab C>-- Jinbish, Dec 14 2009 If it's going on a county by county basis, here's the latest price information: "Fife Four, Forfar FIve"-- 8th of 7, Dec 14 2009 Now would be a great time to see our gold reserves... I'm sure Cash4Gold would welcome it
No, wait...-- Dub, Dec 14 2009 How much cash do you think Lanarkshire could raise by selling off Airdrie & Coatbridge?-- pocmloc, Dec 14 2009 Nearly a quid.-- 8th of 7, Dec 14 2009 Exactly one pound. That's the going nominal rate for liabilities...-- Jinbish, Dec 14 2009 //If it's going on a county by county basis, here's the latest price information: "Fife Four, Forfar FIve"//
You owe me a new keyboard...-- 4whom, Dec 14 2009 Defence policy of the newly independent nation should be easy - they've already got neuks.-- coprocephalous, Dec 16 2009 Taking the Darien example cited by Doktor Von Bob above, it seems to be that an elegant solution to the current issue with the Greeks would be to turn this idea round from divestment to acquisition of assets: for Germany to assume ownership, for some nominal sum, of one, more or all of the PIIGS, to form a Greater European Abhängigkeit (or whatevs) governed directly from Berlin. Alternatively, the EU could acquire corporate form and through that corporate form acquire the PIIGS, these fiscally slatternly states becoming the experimental basis of a truly European Zone, shorn of the complicating constitutional trinkets and baubles of nation-statehood.-- calum, Oct 17 2011 Why sell off bits of the country piecemeal when you could just sell off bits of the debt, accepting as payment portions of other countries? I'm sure there are plenty of third-world countries who would happily trade pertions of their territories in return for acceptance into the exclusive club known as the 'World Economy', wherein the current fashion seems to be having more stuff (and more people who 'need' that stuff) than the government has any hope of paying for. You could eliminate the national debt and rebuild the British Empire in one fell swoop.-- Alterother, Oct 17 2011 //Greater European Abhängigkeit// Is that German for "co-prosperity sphere?" Definitely better run that by Marketing and find a less ... ummm ... Germanic-sounding name for it.
Googles. So: a dependency or hanger-on. Unless you meant "Greater European Addiction."-- mouseposture, Oct 17 2011 Or "Lebensraum" ?
There is, after all, a historical precedent…
// rebuild the British Empire in one fell swoop //
Fine, on the condition that we don't have to have America back. Remeber, this is about reducing liabilities, not increasing them by unmanageable orders of magnitude.-- 8th of 7, Oct 17 2011 Agreed. You'd just cause a lot of traffic accidents anyway.-- Alterother, Oct 18 2011 I just got back from 3 weeks in Inga-land. While there I tried to sample as many varieties of the local beer as possible. By the time my credit card charges flow through the system the entire "UK National Debt" thing might be moot.
As for Scotland it is already being sold off at the rather usurious rate of 29.99 GBP per square foot. See Link-- AusCan531, Oct 18 2011 Watch yourself, [AusCan]. I had no trouble driving on the left when we were over there. I had a bit ofa problem with driving on the left when we got back, however. Seriously, be careful.-- Alterother, Oct 18 2011 Thanks for the warning [Alterother] but after 12 years of driving on the right and then 20 on the left I now just weave down the middle. You're quite correct about the insidious danger of swapping sides when back home but the Aussies drive on the 'wrong' side same as the Brits. I must say that the roads are a bit wider Downunder though.-- AusCan531, Oct 18 2011 random, halfbakery