Denmark and the low countries regularly 'reclaim' land form the sea using dikes. I propose doubling the size of Israel with a dike building project. The Palestinians would get the new, and most likely more economically valuable, newly built coastal region. The Jews would be happy to accept complete control over the old 'holy' Israel (as they were promised). Maybe the Messiah will be a civil engineer.-- GeorgeF, Jun 11 2004 The Nation of Palestine Does Not Exist http://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_72.htmlPalestine is a nation less real than Canada. [Guncrazy, Oct 17 2004] Sadly, I don't think it'll stop the hatred.-- harderthanjesus, Jun 11 2004 I thought we were trying to build a new Jerusalem? ("And did those feet...")-- DrCurry, Jun 11 2004 Somehow I suspect the Palestinians won't be happy with a new land. They just want the old one - the one they were chucked out of on the formation of Israel. Unfortunately the land of Israel is just as holy to them as it is to the Israelis. It would be lovely if it were possible to bring peace to the Middle East in this way, but I'm afraid it's just too naive.-- hazel, Jun 11 2004 I always figured the only way that problem will go away is to move palestine and israel away from the holy land. There has never been peace there, just centuries of bloody wars with some intermissions, and the reason is because it is holy to 3 different religions. I say we move everyone to two new states built on current military structures in new mexico and nevada (of course they would be autonomous not part of the US), and no one ever gets to live in that part of the world again. Tourists are welcome, proceeds go to charity.-- brewer, Jun 11 2004 Wait until the fighting starts upon the nth denial of statehood for the US District of Columbia. It'll make that little bit o' sheep rustling in the mideast seem like the Hatfield's vs. them McCoy's.-- dpsyplc, Jun 11 2004 The author doesn't understand the issues.-- waugsqueke, Jun 11 2004 I'm not sure *anyone* understands the issues...-- DrCurry, Jun 12 2004 Maybe we can just reproduce Israel in Epcot, brick by brick.
Understanding the issues is not that hard. It's not even that hard to figure out what to do about them.
It's just hard to have the leaders on all sides that would actually do it and survive while doing it.-- theircompetitor, Jun 12 2004 Near as I can tell, the several regional fights going on in the mideast are due to misunderstanding the issues. Folk there seem to understand the issues, but can't handle the reality. Shedding blood for a worthless historical limepit is ironic, not subject to issue.-- dpsyplc, Jun 12 2004 //The author doesn't understand the issues//True enough, but never mind the political issues, who says that the sea level in the area is such that land can be reclaimed?. You can't do it just anywhere you know!.-- gnomethang, Jun 12 2004 ...I always thought the sea was quite shallow at the beach...?-- david_scothern, Jun 13 2004 Obviously at the beach, but are we suggesting a strip of land 100 miles long but 250 Yards wide?. A dutch friend of ours was a civil engineer responsible for the land reclamation that gave us Thamesmead in the UK. You may well want to thank him for that if you know the place!.-- gnomethang, Jun 13 2004 How can you build a "new" Palestine when there was never an "old" Palestine? Palestine has never existed as an autonomous, sovereign nation.
At any rate, if you could get the so-called "Palestinian people" to agree to it, I'd support it 100%. Especially considering the fact that, were they to continue to strap bombs to their children so they could kill Jews, Israel could solve the problem by bombing the dikes.-- Guncrazy, Jun 13 2004 //the so-called "Palestinian people" // ?? [guncrazy], you really are a low-life aren't you? Just how many guns do you have in that trailer of yours? You know, the one decorated with your Nazi flags and your skinhead blow-up doll with the Ronald Reagan face stuck on the back of its head?-- ConsulFlaminicus, Jun 13 2004 Argh. The halfbakery should not be like this. Whimsical ideas and sensible comments are far preferable to personal attacks, regardless of provocation.
Attack the words not the person, or just ignore things that are simply offensive.
That said, the ideal solution is hardly to sink the Palestinians into the ocean because some of them are terrorists.-- RobertKidney, Jun 13 2004 No [RK] This is too close to home for me. My grandfather and two of his brothers fought alongside the //so-called ''Palestinian people"// to liberate their land from the Ottomans during WW1 - the lives of thousands of Australians, including one of my great uncles, were expended to give autonomy to the Palestinian people.
It is the absolute ignorance of history evident in the opinions such as [guncrazy]'s above that is one of the causes of the continuation of the suffering of Palestinians and Israelis alike.-- ConsulFlaminicus, Jun 13 2004 I'm not saying that you shouldn't reply at all, but what you said just would have been a far better reply than your first annotation. (In my opinion of course).-- RobertKidney, Jun 13 2004 // Israel could solve the problem by bombing the dikes // I think this is the more likely solution that is going to take place. And yes, I laughed, despite the horrible truth this comment contains. Thank you, [Guncrazy].-- Cheekio, Jun 13 2004 I think the Palestineans and the Israelis should shake hands and make up. That would be the Christian thing to do. :D-- bobad, Jun 13 2004 Like [RobertKidney], I wish people wouldn't post stuff like this to the halfbakery. It's just not the place for it. It seems as advocacy to me.-- bristolz, Jun 13 2004 [ConsulFlaminicus]: Let's see...Beretta 92FS, Colt AR-15, Colt Defender, Colt Officer's Model, Glock 19, Glock 30, Glock 36, H&K USP 45, Kel-Tec P32, Kimber Pro-Carry, Kimber Eclipse, Mossberg 590, Remington 1100, Ruger 10/22, Ruger 22/45, Ruger P89, Taurus 85C, Taurus PT-111...oh, wait, was that a rhetorical question? Oh, I guess it was, seeing as how the rest of your post was an ironically funny bit of foam-at-the-mouth hyperbole. (Me, Nazi? I'm opposing those who seek the extermination of the Jews!)
I don't really see what the fuss is all about. After all, there's nothing I said that wasn't accurate. In fact, it's been said by the "Palestinians" themselves. For instance:
"There is no such country {as Palestine}! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
. --Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi to the Peel Commission, 1936
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
. --PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein, 1977
While I appreciate the fact that your ancestors helped defeat the Ottoman Empire (circa 1918), please understand that nobody on either side had any conception of Palestine as being anything other than a geographical area inside Syrian borders.
It was not until 1947, nearly 30 years later, that the United Nations offered two separate states to Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews. (Jews have been living in the Palestinian region for thousands of years--they did not just sort of show up in the area after World War II.) The Jews accepted the UN offer. The Palestinians rejected it. If anybody is to blame for the lack of a Palestinian state, it's got to be those Palestinian Arabs who rejected the creation of one when they had the chance.-- Guncrazy, Jun 13 2004 ... *and*
Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel ... -- Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head of the PLO and member of its Executive Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977
The Prophet Muhammad said, "War is deception" -al-Bukhari, al-Jami al Sahih
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian Arab nation . . . Palestine is a name the Romans gave to Eretz Yisrael with the express purpose of infuriating the Jews . . . . Why should we use the spiteful name meant to humiliate us?
"The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity." -- Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995
Palestine has never existed . . . as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today . . . No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough. -- from "Myths of the Middle East", Joseph Farah, Arab-American editor and journalist, WorldNetDaily.Com, 11 October 2000
From the end of the Jewish state in antiquity to the beginning of British rule, the area now designated by the name Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries.. -- Professor Bernard Lewis, Commentary Magazine, January 1975-- thumbwax, Jun 13 2004 //The Palestinians rejected it. If anybody is to blame for the lack of a Palestinian state, it's got to be those Palestinian Arabs who rejected the creation of one when they had the chance.//
Or perhaps the UN for doing it at all? I don't know. In any event regardless of the offensiveness to anyone personally I object to the idea that gun owners are automatically nazis, white trash, or KKK members. I am a gun owner and I am far close to libertarian than anything else. Furthermore the american right (except for many being too theocratic) is much much closer to libertarian than to totalitarian. </rant> I also rather think the disagreement is more likely caused by confusion about the terms "autonomy" and "sovereignty" as meant by the authors of the comments, but do not want to become involved in it. I respect the loss of any soldier or soldier's family that fought for a good cause.-- brewer, Jun 13 2004 i'm also not sure of the validity of this discussion here on halfbakery. I don't believe it's adding anything to the development of this idea. This is not a political debating website.-- jonthegeologist, Jun 13 2004 Can we leave the gainsaying to others please and talk about the possiblity of reclaiming land?. That was the original 'idea'-- gnomethang, Jun 13 2004 I suggest adding to reasons to call for deletion: politics, religion.-- FarmerJohn, Jun 13 2004 Don't forget pointless and boring.-- waugsqueke, Jun 13 2004 reclaiming the land from the Med is perfectly possible - it's been done for years by the Dutch. In this sense, there is nothing new in this idea.
[farmerjohn] I like your idea, but worry that the 'bakery would become an annodine and sterile environment. Part of its attraction for me (and others I know) is that there is a wonderful diversity of views from which we can all learn.
However, I agree that there is no place for political discussion here when it adds nothing to the debate on the idea and is unlikely to be resolved via these pages. Bakers will then just clog the pages with diatribes of entrenched views which help no-one and hardly advance the argument. We should stick to discussion of the idea here.-- jonthegeologist, Jun 13 2004 //Denmark and the low countries regularly 'reclaim' land form the sea using dikes.// It is most famous in Holland, lesbians were not necessarily involved. I don't know how 'regular' the practice is. What Farmer John Said.-- gnomethang, Jun 13 2004 You should get into real estate, they're not making any more of it.-- dpsyplc, Jun 13 2004 FarmerJohn: both of those are adequately covered by the "advocacy" reason.-- DrCurry, Jun 13 2004 I'm thinking about getting into surreal estate. There's a lot more of it, and it's a lot more fun to describe.
Accordingly, I'm with Bristolz on this one. As with the recent $1000 Reagan banknote posting, an initially slim idea has provoked an upsurge of feeling which it really doesn't deserve. The annotations say more about the poster's political opinions than how they feel about the actual idea.
I'm not one for any kind of censorship, but I do feel that this kind of disscussion is better suited for somewhere other than the HalfBakery.-- lostdog, Jun 13 2004 So, um, stop discussing it!-- DrCurry, Jun 13 2004 // reclaiming the land from the Med is perfectly possible - it's been done for years by the Dutch //
Why have the Dutch been reclaiming land from the Mediterranean?-- waugsqueke, Jun 13 2004 Heh.-- bristolz, Jun 13 2004 // reclaiming the land from the Med is perfectly possible - it's been done for years by the Dutch //
[waugs] tis a secret Dutch plan that I've inadvertenly revealed. For what it's worth, they've also reclaimed areas of the North Sea ;)-- jonthegeologist, Jun 14 2004 random, halfbakery